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Catholic Capitalist Replies to the Pope
Townhall.com ^ | December 12, 2013 | John Ransom

Posted on 12/12/2013 5:01:30 AM PST by Kaslin

Dear Holy Father,

I say to you Peace Be with You and Merry Christmas. May God continue to bless your work in spreading the Good News. I ask especially for your prayers for me.

I congratulate you on your recent selection as TIME Magazine’s man of the year. USA Today reports that you edged out Miley Cyrus.

“Time's other 10 finalists were a mixed crew,” says USAToday, “President Obama, NSA leaker Edward Snowden, Syria President Bashar Assad, Iran President Hassan Rouhani, Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, gay rights activist Edith Windsor and Miley Cyrus -- the pop singer who made ‘twerking,’ a lascivious, grinding dance move, a household word.”

Of course some in this country would look at this honor as a sideways accolade. And given recent debate regarding your wording of the EVANGELII GAUDIUM, I see their point. On the other hand, the Miley Cyrus reference in USA Today tends to highlight your point.

While there is much to be praised in your exhortation to evangelize, you have many who are confused by what seems deliberate wording that chastises some of the most ardent, church-going Catholics in the United States.

Many are aggrieved by your contention that “some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system.”

I am among the ones a little offended.

I’m offended by the inclusion of the words “trickle down theories” as it relates to free markets. It seems deliberately provocative.

Perhaps you meant it so

Of all the economic systems that the world has known, it is only free markets that have encouraged, not by government but through individual liberty, greater justice and inclusiveness in the world.

You might call that “trickle down theories,” but here in America, we call that "history".

To the contrary, I think that it is a little naïve for you, or anyone else, to trust the goodness of those wielding political power and economic power -- as you seem to imply would happen in some alternate system of economics besides capitalism.

In fact, while so-called "trickle down theories" may not have been proven to liberate individuals economically, socialist theories, as some would attempt to paint your alternative, have "never been confirmed by the facts," and have never succeeded "in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world." They have, in fact, proven to enslave, politically, economically, and individually.

As a Catholic in America, I can tell you with certainty that as economic power has been concentrated into the hands of the government, the Church has been a big loser. This is true especially of American Catholics who are under fire both institutionally and individually.

The advantage we see, as Catholics, in a free market system is that no one holds true economic power. At least not for long.

Hence, those in economic control have had little power to prosecute, hinder or mind the Church.

That is changing in the United States and it is not to the advantage of those who believe in Christ.

I am concerned that your words, deliberately aimed at those of us who do support the church both corporately and individually, will be used—as they must be—by those who seek to degrade and nullify the Church in America and replace it with government-inspired, government pasteurized, religion-free charity organization that supports charity for some at the expense of others-- all in a bid for crass power and not for Christ.

Supporting higher taxes, after all, on those who make more than you-- and this is what opponents of free markets wish for-- is not the same as a rich man feeding and clothing the poor. Or even a widow donating out of her want.

Charity, like salvation, is left, I think, to individuals. Some of those individuals are capitalists, perhaps even many of them are. Some of them are socialist as well, but not automatically.

Institutions of government and economics are not moral or immoral. Rather, they are amoral. It is only individuals who are moral or immoral.

The Budget Deal I Support: Reduce the Number of Democrats in Congress http://t.co/wn5LsbmiTs #tcot #gop #sgp #rush #xcot #economy — John Ransom (@bamransom) December 12, 2013

And it is only through free markets, encouraged by liberty of the individual that the salvation and liberation you speak of is possible through Jesus Christ.

I’m an admirer—as are most Catholics—of John Paul II, who, like you, also took exception to materialism and the outsized capitalism of the modern world, especially in America.

The enemy here is a system of thought—materialism—as opposed to a system of economics.

The alternative – a socialism in which the Church is replaced by the state as the bearer of alms— is just as material and even less attractive than the worst features of capitalism.

The materialism of the socialist state is threatening the Church here in America and the individuals who make up the church.

The materialism of capitalism will admit of God. The materialism of socialism has no god or admit no power but that of Mammon.

We ask for your help and prayers in restoring the Church to us and helping protect freedom of religion, and opposing freedom from religion posing as charity and social justice.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial
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1 posted on 12/12/2013 5:01:30 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

great article.
Jesus loved a happy giver, not a coerced giver.


2 posted on 12/12/2013 5:07:54 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk

He does indeed


3 posted on 12/12/2013 5:13:20 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin

Imagine if a bishop wrote this.


4 posted on 12/12/2013 5:15:12 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Kaslin; RichInOC; Prince of Space; JoeFromSidney; TNMountainMan; alphadog; infool7; Heart-Rest; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

5 posted on 12/12/2013 5:17:43 AM PST by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: Kaslin

“Naïve to trust economic as well as political power” to sinful men

Goes to the heart of the left/right ideological split.


6 posted on 12/12/2013 5:18:28 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Kaslin
We've already seen at least five major examples of what happens when government tries to run the economy during the 20th Century--we know it as Communism and Fascism. And the result is untold human misery. No thank you.
7 posted on 12/12/2013 5:21:37 AM PST by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: Kaslin

I hope rush reads this. And I hope he gets around to reading the pope’s original document, doing so will boost his correct position and he will have less emotion more confidence in the onslaught to come

Rush is right. The pop’s position is indeed at odds with catholic teaching as many bishops are especially in matters of economics wherevtheyve been socialized to believe outside of the catechism that telling the government to be charitable is the way to go

They can’t see what a mess that has wrought not to mention the disobedience


8 posted on 12/12/2013 5:23:29 AM PST by stanne
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To: stanne; Kaslin
Everything that was the Catholic Church was tossed out the windows and doors of the Vatican and churches as the clerics created a new religion rooted in humanism.

Subsequent to Pope Pius XII popes began to speak an entirely new language: papal doubletalk. Analyzing or parsing their comments was a tedious and pointless activity as they were saying virtually nothing. Meanwhile the church was circling the drain.

9 posted on 12/12/2013 5:33:02 AM PST by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: IbJensen; stanne
Everything that was the Catholic Church was tossed out the windows and doors of the Vatican and churches as the clerics created a new religion rooted in humanism. Subsequent to Pope Pius XII popes began to speak an entirely new language: papal doubletalk. Analyzing or parsing their comments was a tedious and pointless activity as they were saying virtually nothing. Meanwhile the church was circling the drain.

There's actually a name for it: "studied ambiguity":

To be sure, the contents of the letter to Ryan weren’t just a product of Dolan’s need to appease both sides in the intra-Church struggle. It was also a classic example of a style of ecclesiastical document that the Vatican employs in complicated situations....This style of writing aims at “studied ambiguity,” a Vatican diplomat explained to me, noting that the people who write such letters are trained to think in terms of centuries, not sound bites. “So you always need to be able to say fifty years on, ‘Well, of course we never meant that,’” the diplomat said.
-- from the thread Mixed Blessing: The Ryan budget and the raging battle within the U.S. Catholic Church

10 posted on 12/12/2013 5:39:53 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: IbJensen

I would NOT go that far


11 posted on 12/12/2013 5:42:08 AM PST by stanne
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To: Kaslin

Naivete is all the author’s.

Indeed free market is the best force for prosperity, and the best background for a society wishing to engage in a spiritual pursuits. That, however, is only true if the free market is made up by moral and spiritual men. That indeed lifts all boats as American history prior to 1973 (to pick one date) shows.

Today in America we have a remnant of a free market: our domestic industrial base is nearly destroyed and the economy is rapidly becoming that of a third nation tourist attraction state: banking and entertainment sector, with overpriced high-tech enclaves employing mostly foreign labor.

With the destruction of family structures in the US and despiritualization of the American nation, the remnant of free trade capitalism that we have domestically is on its way to complete extinction.

The international trade is not by itself a bad thing, but a free market it isn’t. Our industry has relocated to China, a Communist country with one party rule and planned economy. Foreign trade is trade between governments, — not free by definition. Anyone with libertarian leanings should abhor it as any other statist plague.

But the Pope is not a pope for America. His is the pope for the world. Globally, so-called “free trade” capitalism surely prospered some areas, mostly in SE Asia trading posts and, again, in Red China. And the countries that wisely retained national economies, like Japan, prosper as well.

But to apply the wonders of “trickle-down economics” to the slums in Argentina or Brazil is laughable. These are truly islands of exclusion and are likely to remain just that.

The Pope is right, the limbaughs of the US should get out some more before they air their parochial opinions.


12 posted on 12/12/2013 5:55:26 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Look at pushback to begin starting next year. It has started against Obamacare BIGITME.


13 posted on 12/12/2013 6:24:35 AM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: IbJensen
Seems to me the majority of American Bishops were fat and rich and desperately wanted to be "one of the guys" who were invited to the same functions Protestants were invited to. So, they buried what is really in the documents of V II under the layers of lies they called "The Spirit of Vatican II".

They then set out to make a blend of Americanism and Modernism they would say was Catholicism when in reality they were aiming for their own church that was as pliable as Protestants and a break with Rome to form something like the Church of England.

People are right to decry American Bishops and how badly they've gone off the rails and betrayed Christ. It's easy to do that but it's worth considering that Catholic Church in this country is still full of faithful Catholics serving Christ in spite of a century of undermining from within and without that's been far worse than the attacks that toppled, with the possible exception of the SBC, every single non-Catholic Church in this country.

The One True Church in this country is now like the Army of Gideon, stripped down to the point that the victories soon to come will obviously be the work of our Lord, not of men. Be ready for hard battles and amazing victories, not pity parties.

JMHO-

14 posted on 12/12/2013 6:35:42 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory)
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To: Kaslin

Yeshua NEVER did and NEVER could have and NEVER would have preached to his flock that what he wanted them to do was go and get the permission from Ceasar (secular power) to have his sword as a sign of authority (secular law) to go TAKE from their neighbors all they saw fit for achieving some benevolent act.

Yeshua NEVER preached that to take was to give.

Socialism, couched in a “democratic” venue is ALL about taking, not giving.

Yeshua was offered the keys to all the kingdoms of the world - secular power - and He rejected it, saying His kingdom was not of this world - the secular power systems.

Whatever our mission as Christians is, in charity toward others, secular authority is the last place for it, not the first.


15 posted on 12/12/2013 6:57:21 AM PST by Wuli
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To: Wuli
Yeshua NEVER preached that to take was to give.

That is because He understood the economics of Leviticus 25, unlike 99% of the Church. Without an accurate reading of Exodus 23:11, one never could understand it.

BTW, you won't find an accurate rendering of Ex. 23:11 in any English translation other than at chabad.org (they changed it pursuant to my book on the topic; albeit they have one more tweak to go :-).

16 posted on 12/12/2013 7:15:58 AM PST by Carry_Okie (0-Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head and take everything you own to pay for it.)
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To: Kaslin
One point. To those who equate statism with Jesus I would remind you that Jesus was killed by the state.

CC

17 posted on 12/12/2013 7:39:14 AM PST by Captain Compassion
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To: Carry_Okie

regardless, socialism is no answer or valid substitute

regardless of our lapses in charity - our own failure to personally live in accord with Exodus 23:11, socialism is no answer and no valid substitute


18 posted on 12/12/2013 7:41:55 AM PST by Wuli
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To: Kaslin
This alleged "anti-capitalism" Catholic thing goes back to at least the 1840's and before. Remember that charging interest was deemed "usury" in the Christian world for centuries before that.

In the 1840's, as "Communism" began to rear its ugly head, the Official Church came up with "Christian Socialism," which morphed into a pan-European political party, directly leading to the EU, and the socialistic welfare states that are bankrupting Europe.

Here in the US, there was Dorothy Day and the "Catholic Workers' Movement," in Europe there were the "Worker Priests," and in SA, the rise of Catholic Liberation Theology. The theory was, "Keep the lower classes from becoming atheistic communists .... by giving them everything the communists promise,in the church!"

Christian Charity has been replaced by Government Welfare ... oddly enough, that was aided and abetted by the Roman Catholic Church in many ways. In Maine it was Catholic Charities that worked hand-in-glove with state and federal welfare bureaucracies to dump Somali "refugees," on one state in the union that could not afford a quarter-million primitive, polygamous, and often quite violent Muslims.

19 posted on 12/12/2013 10:17:58 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (OK, Obama be bad. Now where's OUR Program, Plan, and Leader?)
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To: Kenny Bunk
You also forgot that the rise of modern Capitalism happened in England. The Catholic Church opposed it in Europe because it came from the hated English (such things happened both ways, the calender for instance).
20 posted on 12/12/2013 11:18:32 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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