Posted on 11/28/2013 8:48:49 AM PST by kristinn
Your guide to dealing with relatives with awful views this long weekend. A special "Obamacare train wreck" edition
Once again, Americans everywhere are spending a wonderful day with their families, being thankful for things, and also probably getting trapped wherever they are for days because of storms and mass nationwide flight delays and cancellations. But while family is a wonderful thing, sometimes people in your family hold very different beliefs than you do about important things like race relations and Islam. Once again, I am here with your guide to arguing intelligently, or at least coherently, with your right-wing relations. (Here are my guides from 2012 and 2011.)
As always, I can’t stress this enough: The first rule of arguing with your family members on holidays is don’t argue with your family members on holidays, because let’s all just try to enjoy one another’s company for once, without screaming and name-calling and so on. Many of your older relatives are lied to and scared by evil people on the radio and television, and that is not their fault. It’s usually best to change the subject, or go outside for some fresh air/cigarettes. But if you must, here are some reasonable things to say.
I have a feeling most of the discussions around the table this year will focus on healthcare, so that is what most of this year’s guide is about.
Obamacare is a disaster
I mean, not really, so far. It is still too early to tell, and most Americans believe that the law hasn’t affected them at all. Many of those Americans could be incorrect, as the law has changed how insurance companies treat all of us, regardless of whether we purchase individual insurance or receive it through an employer, but right now “Obamacare” doesn’t mean much to most people. (If you want to run through the benefits, there’s the insurance for young adults through their parents thing, and the preexisting conditions thing, lots of preventative care things are now “free,” and some prescription drugs are cheaper for people on Medicare.)
But yes, the law has its flaws, in its construction and its execution, but so far those flaws aren’t really hurting very many people.
The broken website proves that Obamacare won’t work
The broken website proves that federal IT contracting is a huge, broken mess, but anyone who has ever read anything about federal IT contracting before this already knew that. (So, like, 10 people knew that.) The broken website makes a fine metaphor, but if it’s up and running soon, it won’t have affected all that many people, or doomed the law. And if it’s not fixed soon, well, then there will be some trouble, possibly major trouble, with the individual insurance marketplace and the mandate, but the goal was always to get some uninsured people insured right away, and all the rest of them insured over the course of a few years, so small initial enrollment numbers probably won’t be the disaster everyone is claiming it will be. Basically, wait for the new year before saying HealthCare.gov killed Obamacare.
Canceled insurance policies prove that Obamacare has already failed
So, yes, Obama lied when he said “you can keep your plan,” or at least he omitted all these caveats that he probably assumed were implied in his statement, but the actual villain here, as always, is insurance companies. (No one likes insurance companies, right? Here you can feel free to agree that a healthcare reform bill that relies so heavily on private insurance companies is inherently flawed, it’s too bad we can’t just have Medicare for everyone!) The insurance companies first sold most of these people crappy plans that covered nothing and would’ve left them open to massive bills had they faced any serious medical problem. The insurance companies then decided that, instead of changing their plans to meet the higher standards of coverage required under the ACA, they would cancel all of them. The companies then sent everyone letters saying that their plans had been canceled, and in those letters they attempted to sell more expensive plans to people, without pointing out that many of those people are now eligible for subsidies or able to choose more affordable (and better) plans through other insurers. These “cancellation letters” are primarily sneaky, misleading sales pitches. Multiple state insurance regulators have criticized and fined insurance companies for sending them.
It’s true that millions of people who had currently been in the individual insurance market now face disruption and change, and everyone hates change, but the vast majority of those people were getting ripped off, and lots and lots of them now qualify for better coverage at an affordable rate. Those stories are less “news-worthy” than stories of people facing “rate shock,” though, and so they are less often mentioned on the news.
It’s sort of moot, though, because now insurance companies will be allowed to continue selling those deeply crappy plans to people, though they will have to send everyone a letter explaining how crappy they are.
Obamacare is a violation of religious liberty because Hobby Lobby has to pay for contraception
OK, well, first things first: Are corporations people? Can private, for-profit corporations be said to have a religious faith? A corporation’s founders, its owners, its board of directors or its shareholders all are welcome to practice any religion they choose without government interference, but how does a corporation worship? The entire point of corporations is that they’re separate legal entities from the individuals who make up the corporations — otherwise, limited liability wouldn’t be a thing — and while corporate “free speech” is at least defensible in the sense that corporations can “speak,” there’s no precedent for saying for-profit corporations practice religion.
SNIP
“But yes, the law has its flaws, in its construction and its execution, but so far those flaws aren’t really hurting very many people.”
Thats news to these people.
The money quote...insurance companies will be allowed... TYRANTS.
listen you stoopid dirty RATS you, try not mooching off your rightwing relatives this year and go eat your tofu turkey at the shelter where you belong...
I would suggest that any right-wing relatives tell anyone who lectures them about politics that because of Obama’s policies they can’t afford to give Christmas gifts this year.
First of all, this creep is assuming intelligent people will be willing to argue with idiots. Second, if the dinner is at a conservative’s house, this creep should be advising his friends to keep their oppinions to themselves less they end up eating at Walmart tonight.
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I tend to agree...
Hey dale, put some Bull Snort hot sauce on their yams and watch um jump around like monkeys.
After dinner pretend you have a new motor, take um out to show um, then slam the hood on their head.
People Lie for their own good.
Liberals think Obama Lied for their own good, not his.
Obama is so wondrous, they just can’t fathom any ulterior motives.
They are eating up his “kindness” BS. To us, stealing one persons Property to reward another you deem worthy isn’t kindness or empathy, it is Theft.
Obama just said his decisions are based on Kindness. Hitler loved Aryan Children and Puppies. At one time he was as beloved as Obama if not more, no matter what pain and destruction he reigned on the world.
lamest args i have ever read.
wait till next year before saying the website killed obamacare.
the law is still in effect. people need to be covered to comply with the law.
these people’are’the same people that believe barrycades has the power to just change the law to whatever he wants.
if bush was doing this ask them if they’d be waiting. where was the quarter given for bush?
best thing is notto allow obama or’anyone else any power overyour thanksgiving at all. don’t discuss it period. the day will be better if everyone takes a break fromit and not let it ruin your day talking/thinking about it.
obama lied
my health care died
the website i tried
just got “access denied”
legally they are. if we’re going to have rulings that say they are, then they are. can’t’just say yes inone circumstance and no in another and be consistent.
As to the “aren’t hurting very many people” line, remember that the 0bamazombies made a huge deal about one woman, the wife of a former employee of a company Romney’s company took over, dying because of a supposed lack of health insurance. Yet Zerocare has already caused numerous cancer patients to lose coverage. They’ll most likely die and it’ll be a direct result of 0bama and the democrats forcing this fiasco on the country.
FUBO and STACA!
(STACA = Screw The Affordable Care Act)
Do have a fresh engine and will open the headers and lite up the tires and burn out for a block in front of their house!
Left, Right, Centrist I don't care. Out the door they go. As much as I hate the idiot occupying the White House, today isn't about him. Period. (As much as the narcissistic prick would like today to be about him, it's not!)
OK, what’s with the `Orthodox Jewish’ couple & the Hannukah menorah and what does that have to do with debating liberals at the Thanksgiving dinner table?
MD 20/20 is not kosher for Passover, IIRC.
FWIW, “American Gothic” depicted father & daughter, not husband & wife.
Just askin’.
Were you a liberal arts major?
I’ve had a long standing rule that if the discussion is radically controversial and you can’t help but argue about it, wait until after dinner and you’ve gone home. Then send the hate email or have the angry phone calls. But not massive fights over my dinner table.
Nope! Taught us about American artists in middle school, part of history class. From Gilbert Stuart down to Andrew Wyeth.
So like, what’s with the Jewish bit & Turkey Day?
;^)
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