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Members of Congress denied access to basic information about NSA
The Guardian ^ | 4 Aug 13 | Glenn Greenwald

Posted on 08/05/2013 10:48:17 AM PDT by xzins

Edited on 08/05/2013 11:44:54 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Members of Congress have been repeatedly thwarted when attempting to learn basic information about the National Security Agency (NSA) and the secret FISA court which authorizes its activities, documents provided by two House members demonstrate.

From the beginning of the NSA controversy, the agency's defenders have insisted that Congress is aware of the disclosed programs and exercises robust supervision over them. "These programs are subject to congressional oversight and congressional reauthorization and congressional debate," President Obama said the day after the first story on NSA bulk collection of phone records was published in this space. "And if there are members of Congress who feel differently, then they should speak up."


(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: benghazi; congress; congressnsa; fastandfurious; feinstein; greenwald; impeachnow; irs; mikerogers; nsa; nsaleaks; oversight; politicaldonations; surveillancedonation; tyranny
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To: InterceptPoint
I don't think the alternative is no secrets. The alternative is Article I, Section 5: Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member.
21 posted on 08/05/2013 11:51:32 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Just off hand, when was the last time a Member of Congress was expelled. It certainly isn’t common. Violations, OTOH, are as common as dirt.


22 posted on 08/05/2013 11:55:51 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: InterceptPoint

Was Trafficant expelled?

In any case, expulsion is the Constitutional provision for dealing with inept, criminal, traitorous, etc., members of our Congress.

The Commander in Chief, in his capacity as CIC, with troops in the field and maneuvering against an enemy, would keep operation secrets as to location, date, time, and nature of those military operations. He would keep it to himself and the soldiers to themselves. I think that’s assumed in the Constitution in the title “Commander in Chief”.


23 posted on 08/05/2013 12:01:12 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

At this point a Congressman should vote to defund any of these government programs that they aren’t compleatly filled in on and believe they have accurate information. Those in charge are not credible and have not been for a while if ever.


24 posted on 08/05/2013 12:03:09 PM PDT by duffee (NO poll tax, NO tax on firearms, ammunition or gun safes. NO gun free zones.)
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To: xzins
Was Trafficant expelled?

I think so.

LOL. I don't think we are going to agree on this issue. That's OK. That's what's great about FR.

25 posted on 08/05/2013 12:14:20 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: CMB_polarization

The all seeing eye of the NSA will eventually have the dirt on everyone. The fools in congress and the administration, past and present gave the bureaucrats more and more power without controls and now the monster they created has turned on them.

The only way to stop it is defund it. If that were to get serious I would then look for lots of scandals in congress to suddenly appear on the radar.


26 posted on 08/05/2013 12:26:11 PM PDT by sarge83
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To: xzins; MestaMachine; Old Sarge; MWestMom; bronxville; shibumi; matthew fuller; Godzilla; ...

Members of Congress have been repeatedly thwarted when attempting to learn basic information about the National Security Agency (NSA) and the secret FISA court which authorizes its activities, documents provided by two House members demonstrate.

From the beginning of the NSA controversy, the agency's defenders have insisted that Congress is aware of the disclosed programs and exercises robust supervision over them. "These programs are subject to congressional oversight and congressional reauthorization and congressional debate," President Obama said the day after the first story on NSA bulk collection of phone records was published in this space. "And if there are members of Congress who feel differently, then they should speak up."

27 posted on 08/05/2013 12:31:55 PM PDT by LucyT (What happens in Vegas stays in the Utah data center.)
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To: InterceptPoint

We’re not that far apart if we can find some mechanism to have all constitutionally elected officials read into secrets with a means of controlling their behavior.

Perhaps there’s also a way to decide the difference between a bureaucratic secret and a secret that would immediately harm our forces in the field.

I think immediacy would be a key.


28 posted on 08/05/2013 12:37:12 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: All

Guys, I feel like we are watching a coup taking place in slow motion.


29 posted on 08/05/2013 12:48:04 PM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to thoe tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: xzins

Senator, all the information you need about the NSA is in this file *THUMP*.

It’s your file.

Enjoy.

We did...


30 posted on 08/05/2013 12:53:01 PM PDT by null and void (You don't know what "cutting edge" means till you insult Mohammed.)
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To: sarge83

It may have reached the point where the NSA can’t be defunded. Ability to sift and manipulate data can have important financial implications.


31 posted on 08/05/2013 3:13:58 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: InterceptPoint
I feel your pain. But the alternative is NO SECRETS. Secrets are leaked all the time by members of Congress. Look at the loonies on the left with IQs in 80's who get elected and re-elected. Would you trust them with your secrets if they were unable to pass the normal security gates that are set up to control classified information?

I'm not sure the no secrets option is actually all that bad an option. Would it expose things that we'd rather not: yes. Would it cut down on the temptation to corruption: yes. — at this point, I'm coming to the opinion that the government in possession of secrets is more dangerous than that of the real Terrorists.

The latter can be dealt with by a well-armed population. The former, they will do everything in their powers to bring you into nothing less than abject despotism.

32 posted on 08/05/2013 3:13:59 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: qaz123
All of this and Snowden is still described as a traitor.

It's stuff like this that makes me give the benefit of the doubt to Snowden and consider him a hero.

33 posted on 08/05/2013 3:15:37 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: CMB_polarization
It may have reached the point where the NSA can’t be defunded. Ability to sift and manipulate data can have important financial implications.

Prosecute all the employees/agents/officers of the NSA:

  1. 18 USC § 241 - Conspiracy against rights
  2. 18 USC § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law
  3. 18 USC § 372 - Conspiracy to impede or injure officer
  4. 18 USC § 872 - Extortion by officers or employees of the United States
  5. 18 USC § 873 - Blackmail
  6. 18 USC § 875 - Interstate communications
  7. 18 USC § 1516 - Obstruction of Federal audit
  8. 18 USC § 1801 - Video voyeurism
  9. 18 USC Chapter 96 - RACKETEER INFLUENCED AND CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS
  10. 18 USC Chapter 109 - SEARCHES AND SEIZURES
  11. 18 USC § 2261A - Stalking
  12. 18 USC Chapter 119 - WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERCEPTION AND INTERCEPTION OF ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Many of these are felonies, and there are even whole chapters there.

Then see what starts happening.

34 posted on 08/05/2013 3:49:58 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: DannyTN

Damn straight.

Cut off the money, the body will fail.

I’m NOT for citizens or the media knowing everything the NSA does, it is NOT always in our best interest, but congress should know.


35 posted on 08/05/2013 4:01:33 PM PDT by esoxmagnum (The rats have been trained to pull the D voting lever to get their little food pellet)
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To: OneWingedShark

Same here.

And that’s just the stuff that he knows about.


36 posted on 08/05/2013 6:29:08 PM PDT by qaz123
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To: InterceptPoint

There is a problem if we can’t trust Congress with what they themselves control, through funding and law. They have the power, but they allowed the Executive to take it away a long time ago, apparently.


37 posted on 08/06/2013 4:28:00 AM PDT by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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