Members of Congress denied access to basic information about NSA

The Guardian ^ | 4 Aug 13 | Glenn Greenwald

[xzins]

Members of Congress have been repeatedly thwarted when attempting to learn basic information about the National Security Agency (NSA) and the secret FISA court which authorizes its activities, documents provided by two House members demonstrate.

From the beginning of the NSA controversy, the agency's defenders have insisted that Congress is aware of the disclosed programs and exercises robust supervision over them. "These programs are subject to congressional oversight and congressional reauthorization and congressional debate," President Obama said the day after the first story on NSA bulk collection of phone records was published in this space. "And if there are members of Congress who feel differently, then they should speak up."

[xzins]

I don't think the alternative is no secrets. The alternative is Article I, Section 5: Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member.

[InterceptPoint]

Just off hand, when was the last time a Member of Congress was expelled. It certainly isn’t common. Violations, OTOH, are as common as dirt.

[xzins]

Was Trafficant expelled?

In any case, expulsion is the Constitutional provision for dealing with inept, criminal, traitorous, etc., members of our Congress.

The Commander in Chief, in his capacity as CIC, with troops in the field and maneuvering against an enemy, would keep operation secrets as to location, date, time, and nature of those military operations. He would keep it to himself and the soldiers to themselves. I think that’s assumed in the Constitution in the title “Commander in Chief”.

[duffee]

At this point a Congressman should vote to defund any of these government programs that they aren’t compleatly filled in on and believe they have accurate information. Those in charge are not credible and have not been for a while if ever.

[InterceptPoint]

Was Trafficant expelled?

I think so.

LOL. I don't think we are going to agree on this issue. That's OK. That's what's great about FR.

[sarge83]

The all seeing eye of the NSA will eventually have the dirt on everyone. The fools in congress and the administration, past and present gave the bureaucrats more and more power without controls and now the monster they created has turned on them.

The only way to stop it is defund it. If that were to get serious I would then look for lots of scandals in congress to suddenly appear on the radar.

[LucyT]

Members of Congress have been repeatedly thwarted when attempting to learn basic information about the National Security Agency (NSA) and the secret FISA court which authorizes its activities, documents provided by two House members demonstrate.

From the beginning of the NSA controversy, the agency's defenders have insisted that Congress is aware of the disclosed programs and exercises robust supervision over them. "These programs are subject to congressional oversight and congressional reauthorization and congressional debate," President Obama said the day after the first story on NSA bulk collection of phone records was published in this space. "And if there are members of Congress who feel differently, then they should speak up."

[xzins]

We’re not that far apart if we can find some mechanism to have all constitutionally elected officials read into secrets with a means of controlling their behavior.

Perhaps there’s also a way to decide the difference between a bureaucratic secret and a secret that would immediately harm our forces in the field.

I think immediacy would be a key.

[autumnraine]

Guys, I feel like we are watching a coup taking place in slow motion.

[null and void]

Senator, all the information you need about the NSA is in this file *THUMP*.

It’s your file.

Enjoy.

We did...

[CMB_polarization]

It may have reached the point where the NSA can’t be defunded. Ability to sift and manipulate data can have important financial implications.

[OneWingedShark]

I feel your pain. But the alternative is NO SECRETS. Secrets are leaked all the time by members of Congress. Look at the loonies on the left with IQs in 80's who get elected and re-elected. Would you trust them with your secrets if they were unable to pass the normal security gates that are set up to control classified information?

I'm not sure the no secrets option is actually all that bad an option. Would it expose things that we'd rather not: yes. Would it cut down on the temptation to corruption: yes. — at this point, I'm coming to the opinion that the government in possession of secrets is more dangerous than that of the real Terrorists.

The latter can be dealt with by a well-armed population. The former, they will do everything in their powers to bring you into nothing less than abject despotism.

[OneWingedShark]

All of this and Snowden is still described as a traitor.

It's stuff like this that makes me give the benefit of the doubt to Snowden and consider him a hero.

[OneWingedShark]

It may have reached the point where the NSA can’t be defunded. Ability to sift and manipulate data can have important financial implications.

Prosecute all the employees/agents/officers of the NSA:

1. 18 USC § 241 - Conspiracy against rights
2. 18 USC § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law
3. 18 USC § 372 - Conspiracy to impede or injure officer
4. 18 USC § 872 - Extortion by officers or employees of the United States
5. 18 USC § 873 - Blackmail
6. 18 USC § 875 - Interstate communications
7. 18 USC § 1516 - Obstruction of Federal audit
8. 18 USC § 1801 - Video voyeurism
9. 18 USC Chapter 96 - RACKETEER INFLUENCED AND CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS
10. 18 USC Chapter 109 - SEARCHES AND SEIZURES
11. 18 USC § 2261A - Stalking
12. 18 USC Chapter 119 - WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERCEPTION AND INTERCEPTION OF ORAL COMMUNICATIONS

Many of these are felonies, and there are even whole chapters there.

Then see what starts happening.

[esoxmagnum]

Damn straight.

Cut off the money, the body will fail.

I’m NOT for citizens or the media knowing everything the NSA does, it is NOT always in our best interest, but congress should know.

[qaz123]

Same here.

And that’s just the stuff that he knows about.

[PghBaldy]

There is a problem if we can’t trust Congress with what they themselves control, through funding and law. They have the power, but they allowed the Executive to take it away a long time ago, apparently.