Posted on 06/15/2013 6:33:28 AM PDT by DannyTN
I've been advocating leaving the scouts since the vote, but that's the wrong approach. The BSA is worth fighting for.
I went last night to the Boxwood Scout Retreat here in Tennessee to pick up my son from a week of scouting. As I looked around at the pristine property on the edge of Old Hickory Lake, and the decades of work it must have taken to build the facilities located there, I realized what a shame it was to give it all up without a fight.
The BSA have assets on their books of over $1 billion offset by just $300 million in liablilities. And my guess is that their assets are probably vastly understated as most of their real estate would be listed at purchase price not current value.
Let's not walk away from that because one vote took us by surprise.
Instead the Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Assemblies of God, whatever other churchs will join us, including Mormons need to band together and reverse this decision.
We need to examine the delegates that were sent and how they voted. And we need to clean house of the delegates that allowed this travesty. And we need to identify the people on the board and in the leadership who pushed for this.
Then we need to go to the next national meeting with enough votes in hand to overturn this decision.
I've seen this happen before with Baptist churches. Every once in a while a church will call a pastor and the pastor will turn out to be a kook. He'll start running off long term members and bringing in his own following who have an almost cult like attachment to him.
One church I knew dropped out of the Southern Baptist Convention and the preacher told the church they could change their name to "Mike's angels" for all he cared. Within a year they had mortgaged the church, stripped it of all it's assets and went bankrupt. The original members were able to buy the church back from the bank, but it was a hard lesson.
Another church had the same thing happen to them, but after about a year of losing long term members, the Deacons realized what was happening, manned up and fired the preacher. The church was weakened but survived.
It's time to man up, change the leadership, reverse this decision and take the scouts back.
I went last night to pick my son up from
That’s what we need. We need to understand the rules for selecting delegates and voting. There’s apparently over 80,000 troops. Did only 1460 send delegates? Or are delegates chosen at a counsel level?
Council Boards selected their delegates.
The number of delegates each Council is permitted is based on the numbers of registered Scouts in each Council.
This “vote” didn’t occur until 2 things; the mormons gave their consent to the change, and the right Councils had stacked the deck with compliant delegates amenable to the policy change.
If I happen to see anything about these (what are at least to me)pretty obvious questions that haven’t been answered anywhere in any articles that I have happened to see, I will ping you back to this thread.
Freegards
>>> The question is where do the Mormon’s stand?
The Mormons and United Methodists were the first to embrace the admissions policy change.
They are ok with it.
>>> The other question is are Mormon’s using their influence in the Scouts to promote Mormonism?
Wouldn’t you?
Horse. Barn door. It’s over, Dan.
Me and Mr. Negative have pretty diametrically opposed positions, which type is disturbing you, fight or flight?
Involved at more or less ground roots level since the 50’s, Son made Eagle, but you are right about understanding the hierarchy of BSA. I still contend that regardless of the years of “diversity indoctrination” at the upper levels, it is still possible to save Scouting.
You or others in the know would do FR and Scouting a big favor by offering some guidance in how BSA Corp works and effective ways we can use to correct them, instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
The Mormons have learned the hard way to not go too public with their stands. Scouting is probably no exception.
Possibly they figure “queer members” is something unlikely to go very far, if for no other reason Scouting and feminization are not readily compatible. Roughing it and manly skills just seem foreign to homosexuality. Funny Boy Scout is a problem that will self correct and fade away.
I suspect the Mormons and other demoninations will draw a line in the sand when the fags start pushing for queer Troop Leaders, which is undoubtedly the homo and NAMBLA recruitment goal.
I am a District Commissioner and can tell you from what my Council Commissioner (who voted) told me is that it was a secret ballot. The 1400+ delegates are all volunteers - no professionals had a vote. My Scout Exec told us that the meeting before the vote he was pretty sure the resolution would not pass and was shocked it passed and more so by the margin it did. My council had five votes and all were No. They surveyed us first to see what the will of the Council was, and then voted accordingly.
My concern is this..
There’s a pattern we’re seeing.
- we lose a battle in some jurisdiction/organization/etc
- we flee
At some point, if this pattern continues, we’re going to find ourselves relegated to the fringes of society, wondering how this could have happened. Their twisted version of “normal” will overwhelm the apolitical/low-information/disengaged majority, and we’ll be seen as the freaks on the outside shouting at them.
We’re losing younger people/voters on this issue, which makes things even more difficult for our prospects. I don’t see an easy way out. But fleeing to our own small communities is a long-term losing proposition, it seems. To me, this will only change is if somehow, through fighting, we try different ways to reveal the truth of the nature of these pervs..
BUMP what you said.
Nothing gets the scumbags’ attention like walking away.
This is correct. The original proposal was for the matter to be decided by Chartering Organizations. That would permit some gay adult leaders to be in the program openly. The LDS was against that. I suspect the Catholics and SBC were also against that. My view on this which will likely be castigated here is that this is not a big deal. Boys have a way of sorting this out. Most gays that wanted in the program were here already, just closeted. A flamboyant gay coming in will probably not last long. We can only crack down on bullying/hazing so much. Some folks in our District don't want their sons exposed to homos yet send their sons to public school where this has been tolerated for decades now. What I tell people is you won't be able to kick a boy out for announcing he is gay, but the moment he makes a pass or molests someone, they are out. Sexual contact of any nature is prohibited and subject to discipline up to and including removal. It is an opportunity to try an instill values at the Troop level in all boys. I did not support the resolution and am angry it even came up to vote. National BSA seems so short-sighted and has given the local Councils little to no guidance whatsoever about how this policy will be implemented practically. No announced changes to Youth Protection, etc. Some Troops are therefore designing their own policies which will likely run afoul of National. As a DC, there is not much I can do about it. The Troops set their own bylaws as approved by their Chartering Organizations.... most Councils will be too apathetic to deal with it. Most of the pros at our Council are not happy about this. But a job is a job. I am staying because to me, the program is still something I believe in. My 12-year old son just finished his Eagle project and will get his Eagle in November at the age of 13. He is big in Indian Heritage in the OA and I see how Scouting has changed him in such a positive way and has changed me too. Hell no - I won't give up without a fight. That other shoe must never drop.
Tuxedo graciously filled in some of the details, secret ballot. Is each delegate responsible for the votes of just one council, or do delegates cast votes for multiple councils? I take it councils are by location, each council could have scout groups from different charters (Baptist, Catholic, PTA, etc.)?
Sorry if these are stupid questions! I think part of the problem here is getting the definitions to sink in for me (council, charter, region, so on) as used by the Scouts.
Did your Council Commissioner/Scout exec think everything was above board with process of voting? I figure people like you and them would have a sense of that better than others.
Freegards
I don’t know the answers. I really haven’t been that involved in the scouts. I wasn’t a scout myself. My son got involved because of his friend who’s dad is a scout leader.
Surely there are some freepers who are involved in the scouts that can fill us in on how the leadership is structured and delegates are selected.
If it was a secret vote and shenagans were pulled, it should be that much easier to reverse. If there was really 60% of the delegates for it, then we need to replace a lot of delegates.
Thank you for that common sense and clarity into how this came about and the probably outcome.
Scouting is too beneficial to our young men to give up and think somehow a new pure Scouting will magically arise. Who knows it may help some confused boys realize they have been following the wrong signals.
I have done my best to inform and educate only to find myself on the receiving end of some behavior from self professed Scouters that is not in keeping with Scouting’s Oath and Law.
I’m getting tired of casting pearls before swine, because too many are looking at this from an emotional perspective, not a rational one.
Scouting is an IDEA, not people, not professionals, not books or camps.
An IDEA that can and will be replicated.
Those who submit to the IDEA of BP’s original vision will find a way to soldier on, only not under the BSA pro-queer, pro-politically correct banner.
Best,
SZ
1. There was a motion put on the floor at the 5/23/2013 meeting to fire the chief scout executive and remove the National President and National Commissioner. It went no where.
2. It is too late to overthrow the National Executive Board. The corporate CEOs who hold many of the ~62-72 seats are committed to "equality." "Equality" is "Cultural Marxism". The Human Rights Campaign began its Corporate Equality Index in 2000 by which they rated corporations on their homosexual rights policies. The Voice of the Scout Survey results released on 4/19/2013 stated that 51% of major donors support the current policy (i.e., ban open homosexuals) while 33% oppose it. But a majority of Fortune 500 companies want to see the policy changed.
3. The National Jewish Committee on Scouting released a statement to its members after the vote on 5/23/2013 which said in part ... http://www.scouting.org/filestore/MembershipStandards/Jewish-Committee-on-Scouting2.pdf
"... This is a clear mandate for inclusion in Scouting. It is not everything that we may have wanted but it is a solid confirmation of the views of the population we serve with regard to young people. I now that many of us now want to move on to the next step and to eliminate sexual orientation as a criterion for adults as well. That time will come. Today we need to seize the moment and take advantage of the new policy as it affects Jewish Scouting. We need to be proactive with the Jewish organizations in our country. Even though some may not be satisfied with the outcome of this vote because they do not feel that it was as comprehensive as they have wished, they need to know that major progress has been made."
There are some things that cannot be reversed by this decision. That people don't recognize that is the height of self delusion.
For one, once activist scouts "come out" or join the BSA, there is no conceivable way to "reverse" the proclamation of their proclivities. Even if the policy is reversed, these boys will be allowed to remain members by virtue of "good faith" (they joined or announced their homosexuality according to policy at the time) at the risk of a deluge of lawsuits that the BSA will have no chance of winning. These homosexual scouts embedded within troops will remain a foothold for the Gaystapo to continue exerting immense pressure from within the organization.
The BSA has essentially forfeited their Supreme Court victory of 13 years ago. They cannot reverse this.
The reason your analogy fails (although clever to posit it) is that the "gay lobby" in the Vatican is in direct opposition to the (unchanging) teachings of the Church (and the pope). In contrast, in the case of the scouts, the leadership is pushing the homo agenda. Couldn't be more different.
The Council Commissioner who actually voted said he was surprised at the security involved and the ID checks to go into vote. He said the vote itself was simple and kind of anti-climatic after all the security and such leading up to it. My Scout Exec said it was unfortunate that the discussions of all the meetings involved the resolution and there were a lot of other business items to be discussed (like revamping Venturing, and reintegration of Explorers).
The hierarchy of the BSA is National, Region, Area, Council, District, Unit. A Charter is granted by the BSA to an organization that owns the Unit (Pack, Troop, Team, Crew, Ship). Very different from how Girl Scouts are set up. Delegates are chosen by each Council Board and normally include the Council Commissioner and Council President - both volunteers) and members at large and the number is determined by the number of youth members in the Council. Each Area and Each Region also have volunteer delegates as does National, which I believe includes the Board. Paid professionals are not permitted to vote (conflict of interest).
Yes the vote on its surface seemed above board with a third party administering it. The results were surprising.
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