Guardian: PRISM “collection directly from the servers”

Hot Air ^ | June 8, 2013 | Ed Morrissey

[2ndDivisionVet]

Well, golly, this might be just a tad inconvenient for the establishment spin on PRISM, if true. After the Washington Post and then the Guardian exposed the NSA’s Internet snooping program, a few of the named Internet companies denied giving the NSA any access to their servers. Instead, they told the New York Times that they provided blocks of information pursuant to FISA court orders and placed them in virtual dropboxes for the agency to access. That would, as Red Alert Politics notes, make the program legal and narrower than originally thought, although still a worrisome development for privacy.

However, now the Guardian says that this is just spin, because new slides from the internal PRISM presentation claim to have direct access to the servers after all. Oh, and PRISM and BLARNEY weren’t the only NSA programs involved, either:

Some articles have claimed that Prism is not a tool used for the collection of information from US companies, but is instead an internal tool used to analyse such information.

Others have speculated – in the light of denials from technology companies about granting “direct access” to servers – that Prism operates through interception of communication cables.

Both of these theories appear to be contradicted by internal NSA documents.

In the interests of aiding the debate over how Prism works, the Guardian is publishing an additional slide from the 41-slide presentation which details Prism and its operation. We have redacted some program names.

The slide, below, details different methods of data collection under the FISA Amendment Act of 2008 (which was renewed in December 2012). It clearly distinguishes Prism, which involves data collection from servers, as distinct from four different programs involving data collection from “fiber cables and infrastructure as data flows past”.

Here’s the slide:

[matt04]

If you have Comcast, Cox, TWC, Charter, UVERSE, etc. as your land line provider that is a VoIP (Voice over IP) service. It rides the same network as TV and internet traffic. It is not POTS, which is a copper pair from your house to the CO.

Not sure about the legal side and how they compare though.

[Seattle Conservative]

Thank you all for your great responses! Much appreciated.

Best,
SC

[willywill]

All parties cited in the UK article on PRISM denied participation. But we know Google and Facebook are already going in the direction of Big Brother.

do you think mark zuckerberg would like to see this country return to the days of beaver cleaver and sheriff andy taylor, or the way it is now, controlled by people like Michael Bloomberg and chuck schumer, with vulgar and degenerate entertainment by adam sandler and seth rogan?

he thinks big brother is the best way to prevent a return the values we once held.

[montag813]

2001: The terrorists have won. They’re still living in caves, and we have turned America into a tyrannical police state...that just happens to be importing MORE Muslim immigrants and “refugees” than EVER before. And how much have we spent to accomplish this feat? $2 trillion? More?

[Grampa Dave]

“Who can keep up with all the lies?”

We need to lease server space at NSA and form a Cloud named, “Lies of Obozo and his Thugs”.

That would make it easier for NSA to track us as we track them.

Clapper/Obozo would probably give us a discount for making their job easier.

[Grampa Dave]

Note to California people, you might be interested in my last paragraph which deals with another spy on us, our PG&E smart meters.

“Perhaps you know the answer to my question: if a person has a land line but it’s connected to the same modem (I think that’s what it’s called, not sure) as the internet connection (Xfinity), is the land line (cordless phone and old push button princess phone) secure or not?”

Your question is an excellent one. We had PacBell/AT&T and went to Comcast/Infinity when the AT&T service was so bad my wife and I couldn’t call each other on the two lines in our house.

My wife kept her Princess because it works during power failures.

This past week, we found out that for some of the phones and 2 lines in an into our house, Comcast had run some of the lines through an old AT&T box.

We are have a total outside repaint and the painter and contractor said we should remove the old AT&T box.

So they disconnected, and we lost the use of my wife’s princess and one of the two lines in the two line phone in our kitchen.

Someone had installed a metal plate inside the AT&T box with special screw heads to keep non AT&T people out of that box. That was done by ?? after we went to Comcast. Our painter had worked for Dish as a installer in the Midwest, and he said he had heard of plates like this and they were installed to prevent non providers from getting into the boxes.

The other interesting finding deals with the so called smart meters that PG&E installed. They installed a line from the smart meter to a coupler box they installed on our Comcast cable coming into the house. Now, we know how our smart meters communicate with PG&E. They use our Comcast line. I’m sure that any other phone provider for any Cali family, provides this service to PG&E at a cost, which we pay via our PG&E bill.

[Eleutheria5]

Maybe that’s the plan. To do unto the public psyche what Pinnocchio did to Kermit the Frog:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy49Yea3iZc

[BuckeyeTexan]

Personally, I have a difficult time believing that systems administrators and DBAs would allow unfettered government access to their servers and databases. I wouldn’t allow it and would make it clear to Legal that it wasn’t going to happen.

I think it more likely that sysadmins and DBAs pull the data relative to the FISA warrants and drop it off on isolated, secure servers to which the NSA can log in and retrieve it.

I also find it difficult to believe that the NSA would allow their advanced analytical code to run on servers over which they have zero control. It’d be far too easy for users on the servers to grab copies of their code. The NSA wants to keep the code secret, then they run on it private companies’ servers? I think not.

Also if the IT staff is pulling the data pursuant to the warrants, it’s easier to understand how those companies’ spokepeople claimed ignorance - they probably are ... irgnorant. I imagine the warrants are between Legal and IT, don’t you? (They were when I got them & pulled data.)

What say you?

[CodeToad]

The servers may be owned by the NSA but private companies have developmental control over them. Many times they have operational control, so, yes, a DBA would have total access.

[BuckeyeTexan]

Forgot you. Ping to 28.

[PieterCasparzen]

NSA has its own datacenters. I believe about 1/3, or some huge amount of their staff is outsourced.

It’s much like any organization today.

A few years back, I worked at Verizon Wireless for a few months. Their Orangeburg, NY, datacenter was basically outsourced to Accenture (formerly Andersen).

There’s always an organizationa chart, and contractors are simply part of that chart.

As a contractor for many companies, I’ve always just been included in the org chart.

Most often, the contractors are the best key technical people. Very often, they really “run” things operationally, day to day.

The top level management that are employees are just that, top-level management.

I don’t know about NSA at all, but I can only assume it’s similar organizational structure.

As far as servers then, NSA (per their website, Booz, etc.) is pulling data from many sources and putting it into their servers. Homeland Security, same thing. Different databases for different original purposes. Each would have staff (contractor or not, no difference) assigned to manage it. Network and server administrator kind of people (as opposed to database administrators) manage the servers (machines) (and/or virtual servers) and the network routers, switches, etc. These type of administrators will have no real access restrictions on the servers and devices they are assigned, since they will have root/admin passwords, etc. There is no way to limit a root account by definition, it’s an all-powerful account. In unixland, it’s necessary due to the way unix is designed.

Agencies come up with nice names for their applications/databases and (if you look at their websites) then they sort of advertise to other agencies how great the thing they purchased/implemented is. All the agencies keep talking about how they can efficiently share data between each other to achieve goals.

Take a gander at Booze’s website, a nice 9-page article:

“Marshaling Data for Enterprise Insights”
“A 10-year Vision for the US Department of Homeland Security”.

This is about SALES TO THE GOVERNMENT.

People have NO CLUE.

SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING, SALES, CONSULTING.

[Whenifhow]

Imagine what the collection of data will be from the smart meters....they will know your family routine, lights on and off, when you are home or not.....just imagine!

[Grampa Dave]

“Imagine what the collection of data will be from the smart meters....they will know your family routine, lights on and off, when you are home or not.....just imagine!”

Yep. Someone would know when you are gone, when you normally go to bed or get up.

We were against the smart meters and then they rigged the system to cost a small fortune if you didn’t go with the system.

So we stopped fighting them, and our smart meter was installed when we weren’t at home.

I can remember asking my wife and neighbors how PG&E would get that data.

Now we know, there is a line from our smart meter going into a splitter box on our Comcast cable where it comes into our home. It was basically hidden from sight unless your were on a ladder and standing above the junction.

Years ago we were having some break in problems in our neighborhood. On the advice of a good cop, we hosted a Neighbor Hood Watch Program.

One of the important suggestions we got from the officer running the program was:

1. Never let your newspapers or mail pile up as a welcome sign to thieves, that you weren’t home. Then, never let the post office or newspaper office know that you were gone. Anyone could read those lists or your mail and paper delivery person would know that you were gone if you stopped delivery for a time.

Now, we have a smart meter, which as you noted, lets someone know that we are gone and not using as much power.

[stephenjohnbanker]

“We need to lease server space at NSA and form a Cloud named, “Lies of Obozo and his Thugs”.”

Now, THAT I like ; )

[BuckeyeTexan]

Yes, as a unix sysadmin and DBA, I have root. I’ve been managing the servers and data myself for 20+ years. That was my entire point. The Guardian’s allegation that the NSA has direct access to Google’s (etc.) servers is bunk.

There is no way the NSA has direct access to the servers of private companies. The sysadmins and DBAs wouldn’t allow it. Sysadmins & DBAs are pulling data relative to FISA warrants and putting in on isolated servers where the NSA retrieves it and puts it on their own servers to analyze it.

[BuckeyeTexan]

You can control your power usage remotely if you install the necessary software and apps. You can make it appear just as random or structured as if you were home.

[BuckeyeTexan]

Another minor point:

Can’t have unfettered NSA access to the servers of public companies who must comply with SOX & PCI.

[Grampa Dave]

“You can control your power usage remotely if you install the necessary software and apps. You can make it appear just as random or structured as if you were home.”

Along that line, we followed the advice of a younger relative.

We have the little wall timers on every lamp we use. They come on at dusk go off at about 10 pm. Then, they come on again at about 6 am and go off at about 8-10 am. So no one would know passing by or by remote monitoring.

We leave the cable box on when we leave and use a timer turn on off our old tv at various times.

[NormsRevenge]

I keep getting this letter every few months from the PG&E energy conservation office or sumthin’ like thet,, they include charts of ow much more energy I use than my neighbors.

My pool uses lots of power,, daily, two motors, I run them as short a time a day , even got some rebate dough for buying a more efficient motor too.. strange how things go here in california..... but do you think they factor that in when they calculate this piece of stuff.. It’s a good thing I recycle.. anyway..

at the rate things are going , they can have my whole damn income if they promise to have cold beer in the fridge and good food on the table when I get home from a long day TEA partying,, just think of how many millions they could create if they ran everything? wow. just imagine..

a database is only as destructive as ya wanna make it..

This gubamint needs a reset.. major reset. It’s a runaway freight train headed for Vegas.. with no drivers and a sand storm to boot as the media refused to do its jobs. put the info out there and let folks decide for themselves, not pump secret data out in the format of news and culture.

I can only view the movies of Germany in the 30s, I can’t imagine what it was like to hear that knock on the door in the middel of the night.. but i think WE are getting close to finding out, some of US anyway... as DRudge says.. ...developing..

Peace from just
North of a hellhole
called East San Jose
it beats East Palo Alto

and out. :-}

[SierraWasp]

I strenuously objected to the installation as I believed at the time that the unit had the radio transciever configured to be able to switch off our power during potential brown-outs like when Gray-out Davis was Governor. When I called they profusely denied that the meter had any such capability and that that feature could not be added without my permission. I obviously had no thought about what has now been exposed in the news about government snooping into my personal affairs!

Being self-employed all these years, I assumed they already knew way too much about me from my Schedule C on my 1040! Little did I know!! But I, like many American people/citizens, had a strong belief that the voters would never vote in an administration filled wall-to-wall with liberal resentful radicals bent on "transforming" the nature of our government like a political party did to Russia in the early 1900's!!!