Can you opt out of Obamacare?

Citizens Council for Health Freedom ^ | 11-27-12 | twila brase

[TurboZamboni]

Two weeks ago, I pointed out Section 1555, one of the major chinks in PPACA's armor according to an attorney at the Goldwater Institute. Section 1555 is in the law under "Subtitle G - Miscellaneous Provisions." Since bringing this up, I've heard from some who believe that this section is limited solely to those who sell ("issue") health insurance.

Here again is Section 1555: "No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendment), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs."

I've contacted Goldwater Institute's attorney, Nick Dranius, and other attorneys for more information and opinions. I've also transcribed Mr. Dranius's webinar comments so you can read them for yourself. See "News to Know" below.

[BIV]

Ambiguities are generally construed against the party that drafted the document.

[Brookhaven]

You forgot to add the fact that Obamacare will force people of faith to violate their conscience if they choose the exchanges. Paying for abortifacients and contraception for others may not be a deal breaker for you, but it is for millions of Catholics and Christians.

Break that question out into individuals and organizations.

ObamaCare forces insurance companies to provide those services, it does not force individuals to use those services. I would guess that a significant percentage (as in a majority) of pro-lifers work for a company that provides coverage for both abortion and birth control in their current policies. I haven't been aware of any major movement in the pro-life community encouraging individuals to quit their jobs if the company they work for provides coverage for either.

Now, as far as organizations that must contribute to ObamaCare (like a church or business with religious owners) this is a major problem. I expect them fight tooth and nail.

But, let's be honest here. 95% of businesses are completely secular--totally non-religious. The questions of birth control and abortion will not even come up when deciding whether or not to opt-in to ObamaCare.

And no one said you can’t receive treatment if you’re not insured.

And, nobody said you still wouldn't have to pay for that treatment out of your pocket. Remember, high-deductible, catastrophic policies are not illegal. So if a serious illness strikes (let's say a cancer) you're looking at losing your house, car, savings...everything.

Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to throw in the towel.

I'm not giving up, but I'm pointing out the realities. The people pushing non-participation never seem to go any deeper--never seem to get to the "and then what" question.

[John Valentine]

Remember, high-deductible, catastrophic policies are not illegal.

Maybe not for the next 12 to 18 months. But what then?

[PeevedPatriot]

ObamaCare forces insurance companies to provide those services, it does not force individuals to use those services

It forces individuals to subsidize them with their insurance premiums as abortion-inducing drugs will be covered under every policy. For exchange policies that cover surgical abortion, there is an abortion specific premium. Our tax dollars will also be pumped into Planned Parenthood and ilk as they get in on school based clinics and other programs created by PPACA.

Remember, high-deductible, catastrophic policies are not illegal.

But they don't meet the requirements for acceptable policies, so it will be difficult for companies who provide them to continue offering them in the long term.

[CrazyIvan]

I wondered why you drove that black buggy with the cloth top.

[Oldpuppymax]

Like virtually everything else, the meaning of this paragraph will be determined by the judge it winds up in front of. If it’s an Obama appointee, forget it. The language will NOT mean anything CLOSE to what it actually says. Instead, it will mean what Obama WANTS it to!

[semantic]

I'm not giving up, but I'm pointing out the realities.

Now that's the type of thinking I like. None of this namby, pamby emotional hand wringing & crying about paradise lost (and possible redemption). I find it particularly annoying when I see FR catering to the conservative porn crowd.

Ok, so let's get down to brass tacks. One of the greatest business opportunities in our life times is to carve out a piece of the action in what is, and will be, the complete cluster f*ck that is PPACA. We're looking at a take-over of 1/6 of the economy, and further plans to siphon off $trillions in existing wealth from the remaining 25-30% presently holding the line.

Since white boomers (and by extension, the Republic) are doomed anyway, why not participate in the fleecing? After all, you're gonna need the dough to cover for your own survival.

As a logical exercise, let's grant a few assumptions:
- businesses will take the path of least resistance; as you state, they are completely agnostic, and will simply drop, opt-in or opt-out based on purely financial considerations
- fed.gov will create exchanges where states fail to do so, thus offering cafeteria plans to those residents
- we can expect to see massive cost shifting, increases in co-pays/deductibles, new capitation rates and of course service denials (ie death panels)
- health care suppliers (hospitals, doctors & nurses) will see service declines due to health care becoming a nightmare industry of which no actual care-giver will want to be involved
- Medicare is being raided to support PPACA/Medicaid, so we'll see continued service cuts in that arena as well, making Medicare completely untenable as an actual facilitator of health care
-Medicaid & state programs will become even more of a joke than they are now; they too will devolve into something similar to Mexican health clinics

So let's add it up: (much) higher insurance costs, lower (or no) health services, and raids on accumulated wealth to cover out-of-pocket costs.

What is gonna happen? Where are the opportunities? If you're not a predator, then you're simply prey. Not taking action is to offer yourself (and your family) to the wolves.

[Revelation 911]

exactly my thought -

new bumper sticker coming……"my other car is a black carriage"

[Revelation 911]

exactly my thought -

new bumper sticker coming……"my other car is a black carriage"

[Revelation 911]

exactly my thought -

new bumper sticker coming……"my other car is a black carriage"

[Revelation 911]

….and yes, I stutter

[taildragger]

Remember, high-deductible, catastrophic policies are not illegal. But they don't meet the requirements for acceptable policies, so it will be difficult for companies who provide them to continue offering them in the long term.

yes so many policies will not meet the benchmark of a "Qualified Plan" if my research is correct...

* The High Deductible Plans for College Students
* The "McDonald's type plans that their a gazillion waivers for, that will lapse.
* HSA's will have to meet the Qualified Plan too...

If my memory is correct they all have to offer all the Obama Freebee's, i.e. Free Checkup, Birth Control Pills, Mammogram's, No maximum on the Policy and on till 26 if it's your parents plan, Colonoscopies etc etc....

This is why your policies are going through the moon and many will just go away, as Obama further destroys contract law on our road to Neuvo-Socialism..

[morphing libertarian]

If I may..............here’s a link to my OBCare prostate cancer article

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2963851/posts

[tbw2]

Other options under Obamacare:
* Join a medical sharing ministry like Medi-Share - they’ve been recognized as a legal alternative to health insurance.
* Join a religious group with an exemption to Obamacare, be it Christian Scientist, Muslim, Amish.
* Be legally too poor to pay the fine but refuse to sign up for government services.

[MV=PY]

Now that’s interesting - love the nice, concise view.

Will you share your plan with us? :-)

[semantic]

Some thoughts & ideas right here:

Link

I think people will have to come to the realization that they are simply not going to receive adequate medical care. It doesn't have to be hard cuts/denial of service either.

It an be as simple & indirect as being forced to wait 6+ mos (until it's too late and you're already gone), to making the paperwork mountain, or search for remaining care givers under a certain programs, so impossible as to encourage one to simply give up.

So, besides the opportunities in health care boot camps and/or Soma "rest stations", I think there's gonna be some interesting opportunities in 'pay for access'. That is, pay some eager-beavers to spend the countless hours phoning, waiting on hold, scheduling and filling out paperwork for the poor suckers that actually need care.

Actually, in a weird way, it's sort of like Alinsky coming full circle. He gets a bad rap here - for obvious reasons - but that guy was certainly a genius in designing effective campaign/protests to get what he & his grievance group(s) wanted.

Whatever remaining power, via votes and/or their life savings, boomers have to offer to politicians for maybe a few more years of living, can perhaps be channeled by effective organization to achieve at least some dignity during their final years.

I know the natural tendency for conservatives is to suck it up, tough it out and/or go their own way, but at some point one has to recognize defeat and figure out a way to maybe, just maybe, make it through the bottleneck by whatever means possible.

[PeevedPatriot]

This is why your policies are going through the moon and many will just go away, as Obama further destroys contract law on our road to Neuvo-Socialism

Indeed. The part that boggles my mind is the incredible waste of money for state/federal exchanges. Everyone essentially has an identical policy. There is no choice except which insurance company you want to send your federally predetermined premium to. If you can't shop for the deductible that best meets your budget or the benefits you need most, then the exchange becomes another waste of money. They could more cost effectively send you a letter saying your choices are company A, B, or C. Pick one and mail your premium of $X.XX if you want X% out of pocket expenses, premium $X.XX for X% out of pocket, or $X.XX for X% out of pocket.

There are a lot of people who are going to be blown away when they find out their bloated premiums still leave them with substantial out of pocket expenses. THAT is the point I think that STHF.

[taildragger]

I didn’t even think of the bloat in the Exchanges, wow Fedzilla jobs staffed w/ Obamatons, Oye Vey... FWIW, this one policy one size fits all is just like the State of Mass and their Auto Insurance before I escaped the Socialist Republic. They had No-Fault and their was no real competition, you went with carrier X but their premium and policy were identical to carrier Y. Move to CT and you could get USAA or Gieco because they refused to do business in the Peoples Socialist Repubik of Mass. What was worse in MA was the cost shifting, basically Western Ma was helping absorb the cost of shipdit drivers in Boston, my guess is we will have this w/ Obamacare until the music stops and their is only so many chairs....