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To: Prince of Space
You forgot to add the fact that Obamacare will force people of faith to violate their conscience if they choose the exchanges. Paying for abortifacients and contraception for others may not be a deal breaker for you, but it is for millions of Catholics and Christians.

Break that question out into individuals and organizations.

ObamaCare forces insurance companies to provide those services, it does not force individuals to use those services. I would guess that a significant percentage (as in a majority) of pro-lifers work for a company that provides coverage for both abortion and birth control in their current policies. I haven't been aware of any major movement in the pro-life community encouraging individuals to quit their jobs if the company they work for provides coverage for either.

Now, as far as organizations that must contribute to ObamaCare (like a church or business with religious owners) this is a major problem. I expect them fight tooth and nail.

But, let's be honest here. 95% of businesses are completely secular--totally non-religious. The questions of birth control and abortion will not even come up when deciding whether or not to opt-in to ObamaCare.

And no one said you can’t receive treatment if you’re not insured.

And, nobody said you still wouldn't have to pay for that treatment out of your pocket. Remember, high-deductible, catastrophic policies are not illegal. So if a serious illness strikes (let's say a cancer) you're looking at losing your house, car, savings...everything.

Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to throw in the towel.

I'm not giving up, but I'm pointing out the realities. The people pushing non-participation never seem to go any deeper--never seem to get to the "and then what" question.

22 posted on 11/28/2012 1:43:29 PM PST by Brookhaven (theconservativehand.com - alt2p.com)
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To: Brookhaven
Remember, high-deductible, catastrophic policies are not illegal.

Maybe not for the next 12 to 18 months. But what then?

23 posted on 11/28/2012 2:01:07 PM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: Brookhaven
ObamaCare forces insurance companies to provide those services, it does not force individuals to use those services

It forces individuals to subsidize them with their insurance premiums as abortion-inducing drugs will be covered under every policy. For exchange policies that cover surgical abortion, there is an abortion specific premium. Our tax dollars will also be pumped into Planned Parenthood and ilk as they get in on school based clinics and other programs created by PPACA.

Remember, high-deductible, catastrophic policies are not illegal.

But they don't meet the requirements for acceptable policies, so it will be difficult for companies who provide them to continue offering them in the long term.

24 posted on 11/28/2012 2:05:17 PM PST by PeevedPatriot
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To: Brookhaven; kabar; C. Edmund Wright
I'm not giving up, but I'm pointing out the realities.

Now that's the type of thinking I like. None of this namby, pamby emotional hand wringing & crying about paradise lost (and possible redemption). I find it particularly annoying when I see FR catering to the conservative porn crowd.

Ok, so let's get down to brass tacks. One of the greatest business opportunities in our life times is to carve out a piece of the action in what is, and will be, the complete cluster f*ck that is PPACA. We're looking at a take-over of 1/6 of the economy, and further plans to siphon off $trillions in existing wealth from the remaining 25-30% presently holding the line.

Since white boomers (and by extension, the Republic) are doomed anyway, why not participate in the fleecing? After all, you're gonna need the dough to cover for your own survival.

As a logical exercise, let's grant a few assumptions:
- businesses will take the path of least resistance; as you state, they are completely agnostic, and will simply drop, opt-in or opt-out based on purely financial considerations
- fed.gov will create exchanges where states fail to do so, thus offering cafeteria plans to those residents
- we can expect to see massive cost shifting, increases in co-pays/deductibles, new capitation rates and of course service denials (ie death panels)
- health care suppliers (hospitals, doctors & nurses) will see service declines due to health care becoming a nightmare industry of which no actual care-giver will want to be involved
- Medicare is being raided to support PPACA/Medicaid, so we'll see continued service cuts in that arena as well, making Medicare completely untenable as an actual facilitator of health care
-Medicaid & state programs will become even more of a joke than they are now; they too will devolve into something similar to Mexican health clinics

So let's add it up: (much) higher insurance costs, lower (or no) health services, and raids on accumulated wealth to cover out-of-pocket costs.

What is gonna happen? Where are the opportunities? If you're not a predator, then you're simply prey. Not taking action is to offer yourself (and your family) to the wolves.

27 posted on 11/28/2012 2:44:13 PM PST by semantic
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