[Cronos]

nice discussion :)

First, lets talk about the thing we agree on -- the French suck :)

I used to be a francophile when I was learning French in high school but then I learnt more about how the French have screwed over christendom ever since Philip the Fair.

They screwed over the knights Templars, who were defenders of Christendom

Then during the 30 years war, France, supposedly Catholic, supported the Calvinists/Lutherans against the Catholic Austrians, just to weaken the Hapsburgs and at the same time courted the Moslem Ottomans

If they hadn't done this, the Austrians would have pushed out the Turks from Europe in the 1690s itself

Then of course Napoleon and 1914, 1939, 1955 etc

And don't forget that Vietnam was triggered by the French not leaving their colonies in time (compare the former colonies of the English to that of the French -- the US, India, Canada, Australi etc. may have a fierce rivalry with England, may even fight it, but they have a grudging respect, or at worst a love-hate relationship -- in contrast nearly all the French colonies detest France)

[DoughtyOne]

nice discussion : )  Thank you Cronos.  That was nice of you to say.  I have appreciated the exchange also.

First, lets talk about the thing we agree on -- the French suck : )  LOL, I'm thinking we agree on more than that.

I used to be a francophile when I was learning French in high school but then I learnt more about how the French have screwed over christendom ever since Philip the Fair.  I'm not a big fan of the French either.  I try to keep that in check, because there are probably a lot of great French people today.  Studying it's history though, it's not all that difficult to come up with reasons to dislike France.  I am also forced to look at what the U. S. populace has signed on to in recent presidential elections though.  Many of us think this is terrible.  I would suspect many in France find their own government smelly at times.

Perhaps the biggest problem I see in France these days, is the amount of Islamic immigration they have allowed.  Couldn't France see any problem with this in historical context?

They screwed over the knights Templars, who were defenders of Christendom.  Then during the 30 years war, France, supposedly Catholic, supported the Calvinists/Lutherans against the Catholic Austrians, just to weaken the Hapsburgs and at the same time courted the Moslem Ottomans.  It's also my understanding that about the time of the French Revolution, the French pretty much signed off all religion.  It was a fairly chaotic period and some problems remained long after.  You may disagree with this.  If so I'd be interested in your understanding on the subject.

If they hadn't done this, the Austrians would have pushed out the Turks from Europe in the 1690s itself.  Then of course Napoleon and 1914, 1939, 1955 etc.  I have a rough understanding of the activities of the Knights Templars, but there's more to know, and I realize that.  They wielded considerable power at one point, and this caused the French government to respect them.  Unfortunately, that respect turned to fear rather than admiration or appreciation.  I think that was a mistake, especially the way it was handled.  I can't say I don't understand the French government's fear though.  You may understand an aspect of this dynamic, that I don't, and find the French government's reaction to be even more uncalled for than I do.

And don't forget that Vietnam was triggered by the French not leaving their colonies in time (compare the former colonies of the English to that of the French -- the US, India, Canada, Australi etc. may have a fierce rivalry with England, may even fight it, but they have a grudging respect, or at worst a love-hate relationship -- in contrast nearly all the French colonies detest France)  Although I am aware of the French presence in Vietnam prior to the U. S. being there, I'm not knowledgeable about what exactly transpired during the French presence there.  Your point about French colonies is interesting.  I hadn't given that much though.  I do realize that most of England's colonies do have an association that is as you described, and quite warm at times.  You didn't mention India in there.  It's still a relative friend of Britain isn't it.

Take care Cronos.