Posted on 07/11/2012 7:02:12 AM PDT by sickoflibs
Chris Hayes invites Stephen Moore on his show July 8, 2012 to set him up on Romney taking advantage of tax laws and so Moore nukes him on how rich hypocritical libs like Buffet claim that being patriotic is paying more taxes when they themselves hide under every loophole they can find to avoid paying more taxes. Moore stays on it and Hayes eventually gives up. MSNBC is NOT posting this part of the show.
HAYES: I want to bring in quickly, Stephen Moore, senior economics
writer for the “Wall Street Journal” editorial board. Former president of
Club for Growth.
It`s great to have you, Stephen. Thank you so much.
STEPHEN MOORE, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Good morning.
HAYES: We talk about the tax avoidance industry, things like
incorporating the Caymans or Bermuda, or corporations that are called tax
blockers that you set up so you can move assets through, do you think
there`s anything morally questionable in engaging in that kind of behavior?
Just matter of first principals before we get into the details.
MOORE: As long as it`s not illegal. I don`t think anyone is making
the allegation that Mitt Romney made illegal moves to illegally pay his
taxes.
I mean, I just think this whole discussion — look, the United States
should be the tax haven country. We were founded as a country where people
could come to pay less taxes and I think it`s an indictment of our current
tax system that rates have gotten so high that we`ve become so
uncompetitive.
HAYES: Rates have gotten lower.
MOORE: Rates have gone up and, in fact, you know, we`re going to go
up, way up next year if the tax bottom goes up.
My point is, look, when you talk about this patriotic duty to raise
taxes, I turn this around on all of you and say — wait a minute, all these
liberals are running around the country, rich liberals saying, we want to
pay more taxes, we want to pay more, and yet you look at the tax returns,
none of them have paid more taxes than they owe.
So, why are you indicting Mitt Romney for not paying more taxes than
he owes when all these liberals say they don`t do that? Everybody from
Warren Buffett to all these left-wing groups that say we have to raise
taxes on rich people.
.HAYES: First of all, those people aren`t running for president.
MOORE: No, that`s true.
HAYES: Second of all, they`re — there`s a distinction here between
what tax policy is and individual tax compliance and even with individual
tax compliance.
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: Chris, you have to agree, though, Chris, they`re hypocrites.
If they say they want to pay more taxes and they don`t, that`s
hypocritical.
HAYES: No, I think that`s hypocritical. I think we actually
disagree on this. It`s like the Al Gore riding in planes issue, right? I
mean, the point is that there`s something called social policy. Social
policy is something you want to put into social contract.
The reason you want to put in social contract is because it has the
force of coercive law. The force of coercive law is the way that we bind
each other in a democratic governance and taxes are that.
MOORE: Chris, that`s not true. People — look, we have a military
of the people who are patriotic. They don`t — they don`t join the
military because they`re compelled to do so. They do it because they think
it`s their patriotic duty.
Similarly, liberals say they think it`s their patriotic duty to pay
more taxes but they don`t do it. So, to me, that is an act of hypocrisy.
If all the liberals who say they want to pay more taxes do so, we could
probably reduce this deficit by a lot.
HAYES: You know that is a silly and enumerant (ph) argument.
MOORE: No, it`s not.
HAYES: Of course, it is.
MOORE: Why would Warren Buffett pay more taxes if he says he wants
to?
HAYES: You think we`re going to reduce the deficit on Warren Buffett
having some kind —
MOORE: Liberals who say we can reduce the deficit by taxing rich
people.
HAYES: But taxation is fundamentally not a voluntary undertaking.
You can`t say —
MOORE: That`s not true. Chris, that is not true on the bottom line
of your tax form, it says if you want to pay more taxes and reduce the
deficit, you can do so. Liberals don`t do it.
HAYES: Getting back to Mitt —
MOORE: The most incredibly hypocritical things.
(CROSSTALK)
HAYES: Warren Buffett is not running for president and you want to
castigate unnamed liberals, right? We do have a tax return for the
president. We have tax return for the president for many years. We don`t
have the tax returns for Mitt Romney.
And in the course of compliance, I think there is a moral question
here about is it at all shameful or indefensible if you use every single
possible loophole, every single tax avoidance strategy, is that just a
squarely praiseworthy thing?
MOORE: You know, I hate the tax code. I`m a flat tax guy.
Literally, Chris, I think we should get rid of every single deduction and
loophole and tax carve out in the system
Link to video :
Stephen Moore nukes MSNBC Chris Hayes on rich liberals wanting to pay higher taxes from 7/8/12(link to video )
Normally Hayes invites some wimpy RINO on like Steele who can’t defend a single Republican position but this time he made the mistake of inviting Stephen Moore on and Moore was ready for him.
What people legally do with their own money is nobody else’s business.
Romney and Obama are not ‘people’ ,they are POTUS candidates in an election so this is fair (or at least expected) game.
But have you noticed that Obama campaign is constantly making personal character attacks on Romney and neither Romney or the Rove type independent groups are returning fire? In fact the Obama campaign keeps demanding Romneys tax returns, but no national Republican has the guts to reply demanding Obama for documents to his past.
It’s like deja vu all over again! -Yogi
“Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
public duty to pay more than the law demands.”
Quote by: Judge Learned Hand
(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals
Source: in the case of Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff’d, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935
Moore’s point here is that the rich libs like Buffet claim that paying more taxes is patriotic yet they themselves hide under every loophole.
How about if a Republican like Pat Robertson took his daughter to an abortion clinic while calling for it to be outlawed? Would Hayes make the same arguments in his favor?
If only Romney would stop using his “Mr. Rogers” style campaign speeches and use the style of Stephen Moore.
Romney was pretty aggressive (and effective) attacking the conservatives in the primary but with Obama he seems scared to be critical of him, of Obama.
I suspect it is because he is a liberal himself.
For whatever reason Romney is campaigning to lose.
It is in the RINO DNA: always lose to the far left Democrat.
McCain obeyed, and Romney is doing his Mr. Rogers best to also lose to Obama.
Romney is so out of touch with REALITY that his paint-drying campaign speeches only point is to describe how bad Obama is.
WE KNOW how bad Obama is!
What we want to know is which 3 of Romney’s 59 points are going to REVERSE Obamanation?
Romney is the most DUMPABLE Primary Winner going against the worst Incumbent - - - and the polls call it correctly: THEY ARE TIED!
Give it to us straight Romney, or get out of the way!
BTW Romney, it just takes the delegates First Ballot ABSTAIN vote to DUMP you!
Tick-Tock - - -
Buffet just announced a 2 billion dollar giveaway to charity.
If the federal government is so great, why didn’t he give the money to the government?
Here he has a choice to put his money where he believes it will do the most good, and he chooses the private sector.
While at the same time urging higher taxes for all.
It seems so.
The plan is to have the independent groups like Rove’s Crossroads do all the dirty work for Romney but so far Obama has been able to keep Romney's positives (polls) below his own by using the personal attacks.
The other plan is to have the bad economy carry the day for Romney, good luck there.
” - - - The other plan is to have the bad economy carry the day for Romney, good luck there.”
That may be the best solution of Dictator “You Lie” Obama.
“You Lie” has been able to not take responsibility for any negative thing so far, usually blaming Bush.
Maybe asking the Bush tax cuts to get Obama re-elected will cancel some of Bush’s sins of omission?
Right now Obama is sitting in the catbird seat on raising taxes on small businesses to reduce the number of jobs, Jobs, JOBS that were lost in the first place by Bush, Bush, BUSH!
BTW, don’t worry about the numbers as Obama will have them revised, right after he gets re-elected. Well, that is what he said - - - .
Take a good, long look at that statement. A liberal who tells you he's really after revenue is a liar. He's after power.
Great find, sick.
Liberals are such hypocrites...
MSNBC won't run this? They're sooooooooo open minded to people with different ideas... /s
Crickets have been chirping regarding Denise Rich renouncing her citizenship over US taxes.
I also believe that our gov’t is facing some serious issues from within - in regards to the Muslim Brotherhood and Al-Qaeda, not to mention the Sinaloa Cartel which Obama has armed and which we know already have a HUGE network within the US (and have for a long, long time).
I wonder if the GOP is trying to hide from the rest of the nation how bad it really is, and how much risk we are really in from these “foreign” interests and their relationship with Obama? Even if these people's intentions are good - to try to maintain some facade of stability - it will ONLY end badly (and, I'm not convinced that their intentions ARE good, either).
I also wouldn't doubt for a millisecond that our nation as a whole has been threatened with serious attacks from interests like Russia and China - those paying attention know they HAVE publicly threatened us (like China threatening the economic war and no-one connecting the dots with the world's economic upheaval, and Russia's threats regarding missile defense). If we're hearing those threats in the media, what threats have been stated behind the scenes, or through our CIA agents, etc...?
I just wish & pray that these idiots in high places weren't such wimps. It's like Republicans all of a sudden believe in some policy of appeasement, like that's ever going to prevent anything bad from happening.
We need a Churchill, not a church mouse!
Hayes sees himself as an intellectual progressive as is the lib guests he invites on. He like Matthews preaches that Democracy is about the masses using their vote to confront ‘the powerful’ (businesses, the rich or even the government) to get the government to tax and invest(spend) more.
He has no objections to Dems running deficits, he has said so many times.
Raising taxes on 'the rich' which generates some but not much revenue but is wanted/needed as the chaser for future tax increases on you and me, so it bothers us less. Look at Maryland.
Friggin idiot. The tax code is set by Congress and guess what the profession of many if not most Congressmen was at one point in their lives? They were attorneys.
Congress sets the rules and penalties for minimum taxes, maximum taxes, obligation reductions, etc.
Romney did nothing wrong morally, legally or lawfully.
In fact, IIRC Bill Clinton has accounts in Haiti.
What are they, then--Droids?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.