Posted on 07/07/2012 7:25:43 AM PDT by Kevmo
That’s not true.
***And you would know because you checked the facts on the ground? Why did you ask in the first place? But, basically you’re right, I’m probably being too conservative.
Sir Robin!
How many gallons of "water" do I get to use?
Feel free to peruse that year-old thread which rehashes all this stuff, that thread I posted to you earlier.
Do your homework.
It’s obvious that you do not know what you are talking about. Otherwise you would not be asking such questions.
How is it that you formed such Anti-LENR opinions without knowing the facts on the ground?
Yes, Johnny B. gave the most likely mechanism.
It’s obvious that you do not know what you are talking about. Otherwise you would not be asking such questions.
I'm asking the question so I could demonstrate how it could very easily be a chemical reaction.
About a thousand times more than any known chemical reaction could account for.
Hilarious! Do your homework.
You’re hiding, no doubt because you don’t want to do the footwork yourself.
How many ElectronVolts are generated in a typical LENR experiment where excess heat has been observed? How many EVs are possible with chemical means?
Speculate all you want, but it would take thousands of gallons of whatever chemical you postulate to account for the excess heat observed, perhaps hundreds of thousands. You’d need a water tank 20 times the size of the shipping container that the demo was performed in.
Hilarious! HAHAHAHAHA! You OBVIOUSLY haven’t done your Freeping homework, and are JUST NOW realizing it! How Freeping stupid does that make YOU LOOK???? What a FREEPING LOON!!!!!
You’d need a water tank 20 times the size of the shipping container that the demo was performed in.
***In addition, whatever that supposed chemical was, you’d be able to smell it. The drainage was in the open air, so it would suffocate everyone nearby, with that large of an effluence.
I had given you the benefit of the doubt, that you’d done the homework. I see that you did not warrant such an assumption. Do your **REALIZE** how STUPID this makes you look? Should I remove such an assumption for ALL the anti-LENR crowd? Perhaps they’re all just too LAZY to do the homework? From my interactions with that crowd, that seems like a very likely and warranted assumption at this point. WOW! Really... WOW! How incredibly stupid that is... I had no idea that I was dealing with such lazy and stupid people. WOW.
I'm pretty sure Rossi has generated zero EV with LENR.
You’d need a water tank 20 times the size of the shipping container that the demo was performed in.
Tell me how much "excess energy" was generated and I'll tell you how much H2O2 was needed.
No possible chemical reaction can provide the level of energy measured.
My simple calculations show that's not the case.
All that extra oxygen. Awful!
Perhaps they’re all just too LAZY to do the homework?
Perhaps you shouldn't mention homework?
Some of us fell for the cold fusion thing... several times. Still this seems to hold promise...
There is something to cold fusion. The money blown on Solyndra should have been spent getting to the truth on cold fusion. Whether there is something to it. Just one billion dollars. Look at the billions Obama blows on solar and wind and rigged global warming research
Your "simple calculations" aren't worth the electrons it took to generate them. In a word, they are "simplistic", as are your assumptions. There have been several demonstrations, all well documented, and run at different power levels. Your calculations may well be true for one case, but the assumed "fake" has to explain ALL the different runs. In particular, the overnight run done by Rossi and Levi, would require a far higher energy component and makes the introduction of such a component virtually impossible. The coolant water in that case was taken directly from the buildings water mains, run through a totalizing flowmeter, and into and through the E-cat.
Since you appear to be pretty ignorant of chemistry, you don't realize that Rossi would have had to come up with MULTIPLE DIFFERENT fakes to explain the data from all the runs. This is probably a harder task than getting the E-Cat to actually produce power from fusion.
But keep trying.....eventually you will actually learn something.
Simplistic? More simplistic than the claim that "The data on this phenomenon is very consistent — the heat generated is several orders of magnitude more than could be possible with any known chemical reaction"?
There have been several demonstrations, all well documented, and run at different power levels.
In case you forgot, I asked you "how much "excess" energy did he produce? He warmed how much water how many degrees?" You could provide the data for another test. Or you could run away again.
In particular, the overnight run done by Rossi and Levi, would require a far higher energy component and makes the introduction of such a component virtually impossible.
Component? You mean the hose pumping the H2O2? Or would he have to up the concentration to the 3% level? Yeah, that would be impossible to pull off.
Since you appear to be pretty ignorant of chemistry
I know, I mean just look at my enthalpy calculations. Just horrible.
But keep trying.....eventually you will actually learn something.
Hilarious!
Have you ever smelled a bottle of H202? It smells different than water.
Kevmo: How many ElectronVolts are generated in a typical LENR experiment where excess heat has been observed?
Toddiot: I’m pretty sure Rossi has generated zero EV with LENR.
***You keep going back to Rossi, whereas almost all of the 14,700 replications occurred BEFORE Rossi even came on the scene. I’m fine with throwing Rossi out, consider his stuff nontypical, and answer the question.
But you won’t answer the question. More hemming, hawwing, and bowlsheet is what we can expect from you.
Tell me how much “excess energy” was generated and I’ll tell you how much H2O2 was needed.
***You already did the enthalpy stuff, so why are you asking again? You blithely ignore that the input water was TESTED. It did not have H202 in it, it was simply water. So how is it you can produce that kind of excess heat with just water? You won’t answer this question, because the answer proves my point that the available energy from water alone is nowhere near enough to produce the excess heat observed. By orders of Magnitude. You know it, that’s why you keep avoiding it.
"No possible chemical reaction can provide the level of energy measured"?
Because disproving your claim, "orders of magnitude more" was so easy.
You blithely ignore that the input water was TESTED.
Maybe you can show me where it was tested?
So how is it you can produce that kind of excess heat with just water?
Of course, if it was an honest test, you probably couldn't produce excess heat with just water. But that wasn't your claim. I'll try to help you remember.
Kevmo: Look at this, excess energy!
Seagull: Yeah, great, but Rossi is untrustworthy.
Kevmo:Doesn't matter, excess energy!
Seagull: He could've faked it.
Kevmo: Impossible, no fake would work, orders of magnitude more energy are produced than any possible chemical reaction. Not even rocket fuel has enough energy. This proves it couldn't be a fake!
Seagull: It could be a chemical reaction.
Kevmo: A new chemical reaction would be great, no NRC involvement.
Seagull: H2O2 decomposing isn't a new reaction. Not even when it's 0.196M.
Kevmo: No fair. When I said no possible chemical reaction, I didn't think anyone would actually prove me wrong with some simple high school chemistry.
LOL!
You should try to dilute your 3% H2O2 down to 0.196 M, (I'll help you, that would be less than 7 grams per 1000 mL of solution) and test the smell.
There was some discussion on this at Vortex. Here’s a sample
On 11-06-21 06:12 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
hello,
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, is a substance that can be dissolved in water
with any concentration. It can easily be catalyzed to decompose into
water, oxygen and 0,196 MJ of heat per mol. ....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a good reminder how easy it is to fake up such a short black
box demonstrations. Really all you need is some cleverly hidden power
source. That H2O2 is good example of variety of possible methods how
to fake this thing, if that is the purpose. Right now, there is only
word from about a dozen people, who has the first hand knowledge. But
it is just a word. Although I think that faking a word is far more
difficult than faking a demonstration.
This is very much of the reason why I am very much of disappointed on
this steam issue discussion, because it fails to see the point of
demonstrations. People seem to fail completely to realize, that there
are far more easy ways to fake up demonstrations. And there are dozens
of them! This steam faking is not among them, because as it is clearly
shown by rossi and levi, criticism just fails in the very basics. Like
everyone can see when they are boiling water in the kettle.
Jouni: Horse pucky. There is nothing at all which was “clearly shown” about the steam in the experiments done by Rossi, Levi, and Galantini.
And as discussed at length on this list, if the big Cat was actually putting out 15 kW of power, it would have been very difficult to fake it. There are certainly not “dozens” of “easy” ways to fake it. You don’t get that kind of energy by simple stuff like pre-warming the boiler, or stuffing it with gasoline and platinum! A fake is only plausible if the *actual* excess power was much smaller than what was claimed.
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