He is not closeted.
Posted on 07/04/2012 5:46:32 AM PDT by I-ambush
I apologize in advance for the fact this a vanity post.
As I have struggled to come to grips with the disastrous and, from a constitutional perspective, inexplicable Obamacare decision by John Roberts, I have read a wide spectrum of opinions, everything from the idea that the Chief Justice is a political genius, who wants to cement a Republican victory in November, to speculation that he was a closeted homosexual who was blackmailed into changing his opinion.
However, a thought occurred to me that I have not seen expressed so far (and I'm sure that someone here will correct me if it has), that Roberts may have been convinced to flip on Obamacare by the Catholic hierarchy. Consider that the healthcare law has been strongly backed by the Catholic bishops, and that Roberts is a devout Catholic. Could he have been contacted by American bishops, or even the Vatican, and pressed to "save" the law, even at the cost of betraying his conservative principles and the Constitution? This perspective may also help explain the constitutionally unacceptable opinion on the Arizona illegal immigrant law, which was also opposed by the Catholic hierarchy.
I write this from the perspective of a cradle Catholic and cradle conservative; two of my earliest memories are of the Latin mass and campaigning with my parents for Goldwater.
“My charitable support budget will now be forcibly diverted to the IRS coffers, in tribute to Obamacare, and unlike the US government, I’m forced to accept the reality of mathematical limits.”
Since I live paycheck to paycheck supporting my family, and I’ve had to buy groceries with a credit card at times, I’ve rationalized my lack of financial support by looking at my involuntary IRS contributions as being key to feeding the poor (and my taxes far exceed 10% of my income). I used to give my children each a few dollars to put in the collection basket to instill a sense of shared responsibility for the parish; I’m done with that now. The American Church will reap what it has sown.
Obama = young Michael Corleone
The reader can take it from there.
It’s a lot of stuff people talk about all the time.
The headline to this anti Catholic vanity, which I am now surprised was allowed to go through, was did the Church Hierarchy (Not the Church, the bishops the American Church) influence Roberts’ decision?
My question to all of the speculators who in their professed confusion find license to accuse the Catholic Church, merely because they doe this and then they do that, of actively lobbying the Supreme Court and it is a serious accusation.
If someone of this group of amateur sleuths could cite just one instance of the Church Hierarchy actively influencing the government then the conversation would end.
But it is not possible to do so.
It soulds like a 1960 “I’m not voting for a Papist” anti catholic Kennedy thing.
I am a Roman Catholic who believes that the Catholic Church (including the Eastern Rites) is the One True Church, and I have no problem with people questioning the role of the American Church hierarchy in this disaster from beginning to end because they themselves have consistently sought to dilute the anti-abortion message from Rome every election cycle with their “other issues” distraction.
Given that background, I see nothing “anti-Catholic” in the original vanity post; there is no reason to quash legitimate debate, and you have an ample forum to refute any points to disagree with.
For starters, I AM a “papist.”
The Catholic bishops have always been and always will be politically and politically active. To say that they would try to influence the outcome of a political decision is not a calumny against the Church. I am surprised that many here are shocked at the thought they may have spoken to a son of the Church about a matter they believe has moral implications.
That said, I am not saying that I have evidence that that did influence Roberts.
i am very turned off by their standing on many political issues and as i said, in the case of obamacare they have no one but themselves to blame...
here in NY i usually give a nice donation to the Cardinals Appeal each year...they are now clamoring for “immigration reform” ala, make the illegals legal....i, probably like yourself- work 6 or seven days a week, pay my taxes and obey the laws- yet the Catholic church wants to reward the lawbreakers....i withheld my yearly donation to the Cardinals Appeal this year because of the “immigration reform” stance and when they call me and ask me why i will tell them exactly why...
I know many Roman Catholics very willing and ready to put down the Church and it’s leaders, unaware of the implications of doing so.
The title, the original question, was, as you can read: Did the Church Hierarchy influence Roberts?
My unaswered question was and is: Could you cite a specific example of the Hierarchy- and that implies an organized group, of course- influencing any governmental decision.
I don’t blame you; don’t worry, the IRS is kicking in your share for the feeding and housing of illegals the US won’t deport anymore.
I wouldn't know about that but if he were tried and convicted, then he should be hanged in the public square.
Roberts supports obamacare which makes him a cino, not a Catholic
Besides your own diocesan website, why don’t you look at the USCCB website?
It has issues listed at the bottom in alphabetical order, and rather than have Abortion first, it features Pro-life activities to the far right.
They have openly advocated for ceasing deportations, affordable healthcare and such (helping many pro-abortion Dems into office in the process); your turning a blind eye to it doesn’t exempt them from criticism by practicing Catholics who have learned to look to Rome rather than their ordinary for guidance.
Having written to the local Catholic Archbishop against his stance on immigration, I can say that I am well aware of the USCCB position on this and, as I have stated earlier in the thread, am aware of the poition of American Catholic Church in these issues.
The headline, as you can see, wonders whether the Church Hierarchy (Not the USCCB, nor the American Church) inluenced the Supreme Court.
This implies that it is possible for the Vatican to have an interest and to actually do something about American politics.
My question was, and still is, can you cite one instance where the Church Hierarchy sought to and indeed effectively did such a thing.
I’m getting nothing back but anti catholic rants.
LLS
My apologies; I didn’t understand that you were referring to the Vatican. The USCCB IS the American hierarchy.
“Archbishop Raymond Burke, the former St. Louis prelate who now leads the Vatican supreme court, has called on parishioners to pressure reluctant bishops to withhold Communion from Catholic politicians who back legalized abortion.”
That is from the National Catholic Reporter March 26, 2009; is this what you are looking for? He “leads the Vatican supreme court”.
He is not closeted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roberts_Supreme_Court_nomination
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2900724/posts?page=31
In this case it makes a huge change in meaning. For example, the day Saddam Hussein was hanged I sent an email to some people with the title, "Saddam Hung" and inluded this photo:
No. I eas referring to the headline “Was John Roberts Influenced by the Catholic Hierarchy? (vanity)”
This says nothing about the Chrich as American.
The Church Hierarchy is The Holy See, the Vatican.
So my question was and still is: In what certain instance has the Church Hierarchy ever sought out influence as an organized group (the Hierarchy) any or all branches of the US govt.
The American bishops are the local “hierarchy” to whom I was referring.
I don’t think I can ever answer your question, as I don’t really understand it. If you are asking whether or not the Vatican has ever tried to direct the US government to do anything directly, I’m not aware of any such example.
Don’t be afraid to question the humans in high positions in your church; that blind faith has caused a lot of problems for the Church recently (and as with ObamaCare, they were only rectified when the enormous price tag became apparent).
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