I Dare

13 June 2012 | Grig (aka TheCrewsayder)

[Grig]

This may be the post that gets me zotted, and if so, so be it, but it would be a nice sign of respect for free speech, and just plain old maturity if that doesn’t happen. I won’t lose sleep either way though.

All through the Clinton years FR played a key role in helping me really come to appreciate the wisdom of the founding fathers as Clinton violated their principles in so many ways. I found here a large community of wise, informed posters from a diverse background that added depth and clarity to the news of the day. It was here on FR that I found out about the WTC attack. Being Canadian, the second amendment always seemed kind of silly to me, but through FR I learned how wrong that view was and now wish my country had such a right for it’s citizens.

That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesn’t fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies. I used to spend a fair bit of time here each day, now perhaps a quick look once every few weeks because of this change in climate. I know many have left because of it, many have already posted their concerns about it, and their wise observations and suggestions have fallen on deaf ears.

I do feel I have a small measure of responsibility for the change (but no guilt). When FR started to fail to live up to it’s own rules about not bashing religions (when it came to my religion) we Mormon posters decided that instead of being party to the creation of long threads filled with contention that made it hard for the moderators see the difference in our behavior and theirs, we decided instead to simply post articles putting forward our position and leave the critics to show their true colors. (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2013341/posts). Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way. It is sad to see it come to this, and I hope that the day comes when sanity returns. Something that needs to happen for that day to come is for the majority of people around here to face this reality: If you are not supporting Mitt Romney, you are playing into Obama’s hands. Any hopes of a brokered convention or third party conservative super-candidate are nothing but delusions fueled by a denial of reality. It comes down to either Mitt or Obama, and if you are not supporting Mitt you are helping Obama. Deal with it.

And don’t try to hide behind the idea that Mitt losing will be good in the long term for conservatism. That is putting your partisanship above your patriotism. Obama has done massive damage to the USA, and if you give him another 4 years you may not have a USA left at the end of his term. What good will this theoretical transformation of the GOP then? Truth is that if Mitt loses, no matter how conservative or liberal his campaign and policies are, the media will blame it on him being too right-wing and drive the GOP to the left as much as they can. Also, the good of the country should come first if you want to call yourself a patriot, and having Mitt in the White House will be much better for the USA than having Obama there.

While Mitt is not perfect (nobody is) I find many of the attacks on him so over the top, so full of exaggeration and fear mongering that ignores contrary evidence or any sense of proportion that I can’t help but suspect they hyperbole is just a mask for darker motives. The fact that in many cases these attacks come from those who also display great hostility towards Mormonism says it all. Deny it all you want, it is easy to see. For a satirical look at it, check this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG68yz-mMgE

I am going to make some predictions I would like to make, and I hope this thread stays around so that in years to come you can all look back and see how it turned out:

- every conservative you respect will vote for Mitt, all of them (perhaps a couple excepts, but not many) will even endorse him and perhaps campaign with him

- Mitt will become the next POTUS in a landslide victory,

- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security

- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life

- He will be a better president than either Bush was

- You will hear conservative pundits call him this generation’s Ronald Reagan, or Ronald Reagan’s 3rd term or something along those lines

- President Romney will be re-elected in another big victory

- His Vice President will become POTUS after his second term

- If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical)

And for those of you anti-Mormons out there, I have some prediction for you too. And these apply even if Romney is not elected as POTUS:

- Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism

- All the attacks against Romney that stem from the anti-Mormon garbage you have bought into will result in the attacker either apologizing, or in their loss of credibility. The more anti-Mormon attacks are made in the mainstream media, the worse the attackers will look.

- Your grandchildren will likewise look at such attacks as being as bigoted and wrong, even when they come from you.

- Some of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren will become Mormons, and after you are dead they will have temple ordinances performed for you, and you will be glad at the time that they do.

I dare you to post your own predictions of what a Romney presidency will result in.

I dare FR to leave this thread open and available for comments and to not delete a single comment from it.

I dare FR to start respecting freedom of religion by not playing favorites towards one religious group as is currently done by disallowing Mormon caucus threads, and if that is too big a challenge for you, the do away with the Religion Forum altogether.

I dare you all to give Mormons and Mormonism the respect it deserves to have as the 4th largest denomination in the USA, stalwart defender of traditional values, glowing example of Christian charity at home and around the world, the most conservative people of all religious groups, and staunch defenders of the principles of the constitution and values that built the country. No matter how much you disagree with us on religious matters, we are and should be treated as valuable conservative allies. Until FR does that, all they do is shoot themselves in the foot.

[USD79]

I know a woman who spent about that many months in the Maricopa County jail, awaiting trial because she couldn't come up with bail money, the charges were ultimately dismissed. The accused get the same shoddy treatment that the guilty get, no wonder from what I heard from her that Maricopa County is constantly being sued.

I have no respect at all for Arpaio, he's a grandstander on a grand scale.

Indeed, since 1993, Sheriff Joe has been sued a whopping 6300 times at a cost to Maricopa County of $50-$71 million, out of pocket expenses to the county. This number depends on who you believe and when you check on it. This number does not include the amounts paid out by the insurance company in settlements and judgments. For instance, it does not include the $9,000,000 jury verdict against Arpaio for the death of a mentally handicapped prisoner who died while being restrained. As a former Maricopa taxpayer, I found this unacceptable and is only one reason I am not a fan of Arpaio.

I suggest that he is anything but a "true American hero" or that a "majority" of Freepers believe that "Arpaio is likely the most respected person in government."

[svcw]

(hey grig, Sandy)
Yep, grig has even said that Elsie wants to kill mormons (some one did say that was to much).
I am not sure, how a website with 418 ‘members’ feel that they are so powerful as to accuse people of wanting to murder people.
The site just appears to be angry mormons and mormon defender h%ll bent on destroying FreeRepublic.
It’s humorous because grig is a canuc, and has no dog in the hunt for president, yet demands people respect his myopic view of Romney.
There are posters who have posted articles about Romney not saying he will over turn BHOK new amnesty announcement or cut the budget if elected. We already know that Romney has said he will overturn obamaCare, yet his advisers walk that back to “maybe or parts of it”.
At TRL, they are spinning like a kids top trying to make excuses for Romney over these new revelations.
grig is a militant follower of Joseph Smith, they have learned their lessons well, and exposing the true nature mormonism as many here have seen/experienced personally.

[greyfoxx39]

I am SOOOoo tempted to sign up at TBL as Joseph Smith's personal hit man, Porter Rockwell.

[svcw]

Nice font, color and paragraph structure, I’ll give you that.
Romney is still a liberal and I don’t vote for liberals.

[greyfoxx39]

Quix: "The pettiness of SO MUCH of the horrific eat-your-own stuff whether hereon or in churches far and wide or in families far and wide will soon enough look to be the outrageous victory of the enemy that it always is."

The pettiness of Quix who is posting daily at the FReeper hate site, AGAINST FR and AND against JR, then coming back over here and preaching to FReepers is what is outrageous.

Makes me wonder if Quix is trying to hitchhike on Grig's zot train.

Post from Quix on Truebluelosers site, June 17. 2012:

It's a hilarious joke . . . except that it's toooo painfully true on TOS. And that's horrific for Judeo/Christian and other Conservatives. It's horrific for those perpetrating such hidiousness. It's horrific for the body politic and somewhat for the country. . And sadly, it mirrors the successes of the enemy of our souls directly and through demonic globalism abroad in the land and the planet in our era as never before.

. Some of those pushing folks off the bridge with vain-glorious ZOTS are likely to find their own weights and chains dragging them off the same or a similar bridge.

AND, Quix says here: "Let's ally up!"! What a hypocrite!

[trisham]

Thanks for the ping, greyfoxx.

[Tau Food]

Christianity and Mormonism are separated by much more than pettiness. I have read with amazement the quotes of prominent Mormons set forth in Elsie’s very informative posts.

I have also learned that Romney’s father, George Romney, was born in Mexico and that the Romney family had helped found a commune in Mexico so that they could practice what they called “plural marriage” (polygamy) within the context of a socialist community. Unfortunately, a wave of anti-communism within the context of the Mexican Revolution forced the Romneys and their wives to flee Mexico and sneak into the United States early in the twentieth century. In this country, most Mormons remain “in the closet” regarding “plural marriage.”. Thus, Ann Romney, who seems to be a very nice lady, is all that we see.

[SZonian]

"It is this willful feigned ignorance, and this unwillingness to debate honestly and rationally that points to religious bigotry as the motivating factor."

The following is from an AB0 FR poster...

"...they cloak themselves in hyperbolic "Christian" piety,..."

Would you say this is "willing", "honest" and "rational" or would it more likely fall into the category of "religious bigotry as a motivating factor" of an AB0 proponent?

The requested "truce" that JR proposed has been met by the AB0 crowd with either great indifference or it has just served to help expose those who were always in the MR camp.

[svcw]

It's horrific for the body politic and somewhat for the country. . And sadly, it mirrors the successes of the enemy of our souls directly and through demonic globalism abroad in the land and the planet in our era as never before.

Oh, I thought Quix was talking about mormonism.

[SVTCobra03]

I believe that soon, very soon, we will either experience the 3rd Great Awakening or the Rapture. If it is the latter, then America will cease to be a major player on the world stage. America has the greatest percentage of Christians in the world and if they suddenly disappear, a significant portion of the tax base also disappears and the US collapses into a third world economy.

[jackv]

My concern goes to who will leave this country in better shape...Most organized religions have some differences that bother me, BUT...who loves this country? THAT'S what I want to know. And how or will they inject their views on the rest of us.
The separation of church and state means I focus on the following...

From what I know about Mormonism they believe in building strong communities. The fundamental views of Islam are hateful and destructive.

[MEG33]

Indeed, jackv..We’re not voting for a pastor..we are voting for a President..
Mitt wasn’t my choice but I will vote for him because I believe he loves this country and does not want to destroy it.
4 more years of Obama may destroy us.

[fishtank]

The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created BY Him.

The lds-org is a thief of the Name and the Truth of Jesus Christ.

[fishtank]

The lds-org denies that Jesus is the Creator, that everything was created THROUGH Him, BY Him and FOR Him.

They deny that Jesus created even the angels out of nothing.

They do NOT teach the truth about Jesus.

[fishtank]

[svcw]

mormons do not have pastors.
And Jackv are you sure?

[fishtank]

Name for me a single nationally known conservative lds politician.

[MEG33]

Who said they did? I do.

[svcw]

You did post #633.