Posted on 05/22/2012 5:45:32 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
Are conservative Christians hypocritical and selective when it comes to the Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality? With all that the Bible condemns, why the focus on gay sex and same-sex marriage?
Given the heated nature of our current debates, it’s a question conservative Christians have learned to expect. “Look,” we are told, “the Bible condemns eating shellfish, wearing mixed fabrics and any number of other things. Why do you ignore those things and insist that the Bible must be obeyed when it comes to sex?”
(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...
Regarding “God hate(s) the sin, (but) loves the sinner.”
You make a good point. I have always had a hesitancy concerning that cliche. “Jacob I loved, Esau I hated.” Sometimes the sinner personifies the sin. Hundreds of Baal’s prophets were killed in a very brief time. In Korah’s rebellion the earth swallowed up those who opposed God and His servant Moses. When one blasphemes the Holy Spirit I believe that God hates the sinner. In this case it is one who is deliberately trying to lead others away from Jesus Christ.
“Let love be without hypocrisy, abhor what is evil and cling to what is good.”
The act is chosen. The orientation in many cases is not. To say that the orientation is not chosen does not require a genetic explanation. The best research by those who believe the acts are evil but the orientation is not necessarily chosen suggests psycho-social origins.
Just because people say the orientation is not necessarily a choice doesn’t mean they believe in genetic origin. One can affirm that the act is immoral and freely chosen (if it were not freely chosen, it couldn’t be immoral) while also affirming that the orientation may be produced in the victim by evildoing by others.
Separating heterosexual sex from procreation, pornography, emphasis on sexual gratification among contracepting heterosexuals within marriage may be part of the psychosocial causation for same-sex attraction.
When you turn sex into mere gratification and make it casual, even within marriage, you mess up your kids.
Heterosexuals share some of the blame for the messed up sexuality of our culture. Contraceptive sex messes heterosexuals up, leads to divorce and a host of other problems.
Kids are affected by parents who have reduced sex to mutual gratification.
Homosexual acts are sinful and immoral. Same-sex orientation often is not freely chosen, indeed, to the degree that one suffers from a disordered same-sex orientation, it cannot be something freely chosen. A person with a normal heterosexual orientation but who does a homosexual act is acting sinfully and immorally, straight out and over the top because he’s going against his own orientation.
But a person with same-sex orientation who acts out on it, does something immoral but he’s acting according to the disordered orientation that he did not create in himself. He’s wrong to act on it but it’s harder for him to do the right thing than for a heterosexually oriented person who does a homosexual act.
You need to get the distinction between act and orientation clear. Not everyone who claims to have a strong same-sex orientation in fact has one—he may be using that as cover for straight out perverted acts. But some who claim such orientation clearly do have such an orientation and did not choose it. You, in fairness need to recognize that they have a harder time refraining from doing immoral homosexual acts. If they go ahead and do such acts, I condemn the acts and call a spade a spade. But I don’t stick my head in the sand and deny the existence of any unchosen, non-free-willed homosexual orientation. I do insist that all homosexual acts are freely chosen. Some are chosen going along with an unchosen orientation, some are chosen going against an unchosen heterosexual orientation.
Flame away. Sometimes the truth hurts when it hits the righteously indignent but misinformed.
That said, rebranding temptation as "orientation" has no moral effect. Yielding to temptation is sin. You cannot ask the church to accept sin, and you cannot ask the church to countenance temptation, except to encourage the tempted one to resist.
When you turn sex into mere gratification and make it casual, even within marriage, you mess up your kids.
1) I don't see why "mutual gratification" within marriage is a bad thing. You love your partner, God created sex for married couples, and we have free will and conscience that elevates us above animals and their need to procreate at all costs. This line of thinking reads like "sex is dirty and nasty, but necessary for procreation, so just do it and get it over with!" Nonsense. God didn't give us that gift for us to be ashamed of it.
2) I'm honestly not getting the "mess up your kids" connection. Outsiders' constant advertising of promiscuity would have a far more negative impact on your kids than mom and dad enjoying each other within marriage.
The act is chosen. The orientation in many cases is not.
That's a valid point. It seems to me to be just another form of addiction or possibly manifestations of larger mental issues.
You, in fairness need to recognize that they have a harder time refraining from doing immoral homosexual acts.
Of course, with homosexuality as a form of addiction, this makes perfect sense. As with any other addiction, it should be recognized and treated. You'll never see people telling us to embrace alcoholism or drug abuse, but homosexuality...oh boy, you had better not condemn that one!
The fact is that I will never, EVER submit to homosexuality as "normal." It exists, it's a problem, people are slaves to it even though they believe themselves to be "free." It's destructive to the person and to the society. The Bible is crystal clear on the nature of homosexuality; there just isn't room for interpretation.
We can debate the finer semantic points of orientation vs. acts all day, but the homosexual mafioso in this country will have none of it regardless. They are normal, they are healthy, and they'll toss you in a thought-crimes prison to prove it.
Thank-you for the responses.
So that vision of Peter means do not impose impossible dietary laws and accept non-Jewish gentles.
At some point in Acts, God sent Peter a vision of a sheet filled with “unclean” animals. Peter was told to “kill and eat.” When Peter said he had never eaten anything that was unclean, God said “do not call unclean what God has made clean.”
Can anyone find a similar passage concerning homosexuality?
Answered in the thread. My posting history ought to leave no doubt as to where and how I stand, Pete.
Just read the whole article....he explains the dichotomy.
Happens all the time. I guess you don't know any atheists of that sort?
This guy is an idiot. Most laws apply to Jews only 613. The seven Noachide laws include sexual immorality.
“Envy plus rhetoric equals ‘social justice.’ “ - Thomas Sowell
Wow, I read the article and then started reading the online responses. Sickening. I felt like I was listening to the men from Sodom and Gomorrah. Cheering on each other and their sinfulness. We, as a nation of people, are certainly no better than the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.
God is holy. We need a savior, as we are not. Jesus provides our salvation through His death and resurrection. No other opinion matters.
Thomas Sowell should reacquaint himself with Thomas Aquinas. Poor Mr. Sowell has fallen hook, line, and sinker for marxist misappropriation of other peoples' terms.
Envy plus rhetoric equals marxism.
You did not read the article.
You did not read the article.
That’s it.
Thank you so much. I studied under a minister whom I consider to be the best teacher in America, so it was easy to learn.
People who love to quote some scripture often ignore the fact that the Bible often shows a balance. Sure one is to love their enemies but the scriptures also tells us:
People today are simply afraid to tell other people that they are sinning and they need to stop it and repent to God. Now which is more loving 1) to keep quiet and say nothing to "the abortionists, the queers, the socialists, and the mohammedans" hoping that our prayers will do the trick; or 2) to tell them they are living in sin and they need to get right with God?
It's a cop out for us to say we need to pray. We really need to start acting (and I'm including myself in this failing). The reason we don't do more of this is simply evidence of our disobedient nature before God. How often we "pray" for our unsaved fathers and mothers rather than simply share the truth. In the end we show that we don't love them as much as we claim and we fail our Lord in following His commandments. This is our depraved nature.
BTW-Just to be clear, non-Christians are not OUR enemies. They are God's enemies. And since they are God's enemies, they are by de facto our enemies who God commands for us to love simply because He loves and cares for all. Non-Christians cannot see or understand the depths of their sins and so we SHOULD be loving and forgiving.
It is OUR responsibility as Christians to tell them they need to repent and ask God's forgiveness. And if they do not repent, they continue to be enemies of God and the wrath of God rest on them.
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