Push to give George Washington his birthday back

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[nuconvert]

-excerpt-

"We need to change the focus from celebrating sales at the mall to celebrating the significance of President Washington's birth to the birth of our nation," said Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Va., sponsor of a bill to change the holiday to Feb. 22.

[annieokie]

That was well stated. I have read many of Washingtons books, perfect man, NO. Couragous, YES.

As you said he and many of the founding fathers and mothers, dedicated everything they had to the cause of Freedom. The women raised the crops, while the men were in the battle field. Those women spun the thread, made the clothes for the soldiers, they took these goods into the battle field, set up shop and provided for the men. Then back home again to start all over.

They would risk everything they owned, one women told them to burn her plantation home down, before she would allow it to be turned over to the British. This country was freed by the sacrifices of those people. Every American black or white owes them more than can ever be re-payed. Some used their whole fortune to help the war effort, they were never re-payed and never regained their fortune.

These people had slaves, not that they liked it, but the slaves where here, someone was going to own them, best be someone who cared for them.

Jefferson, never wanted slavery, BUT, he knew if he set them free, they could not provide for themselves, and bounty hunters would capture them anf return them to slavery. Jefferson trained his slaves for future freedom, or wanted to, those that wanted to learn a trade could do so, those that were lazy was sent to the fields.

If I were an American black today, I would be thanking my father in heaven that one of my ancestors was once a slave.

I approve of restoring George Washingtons birthday.

[annieokie]

Most of them knew it was wrong and wanted to do something about it when the Constitution was written, they also knew they needed the south to agree to the constitution, so they left the abolition of slavery out.

Washington himself was not a wealthy man, his brother being the oldest inherited everything from their father. George inherited Mt. Vernon from his brother upon his death. George then set out to find a wife. Martha was the Richest available woman, she owned all those slaves. All her fortune became his, so this could indicate that George on his death bed knew he owed more to Martha than simple abandonment.

If she was in fear for her life, she would have been in fear through all the years George was not home, but out in some campaign of the war, and that was many a long periods of time.

Whatever happened, as Americans we do owe General Washington a great deal of respect.

[DoughtyOne]

I agree with you. Exactly right.

[DoughtyOne]

LadyJane, if that’s his record, then I support it being out in the open. I’m pretty sure the guy was a flawed man, but I haven’t looked into it in earnest.

[DoughtyOne]

As do I, and I appreciate you weighing in.

[DoughtyOne]

BTW, we’re in full agreement concerning your comments. I think you already knew that.

[ballplayer]

What an Idiot,words Fail me, You Buffoon

[samtheman]

I would like to add to your thoughts about the history of slavery in America, something that never gets mentioned:

There was no other Road To America for black Africans than the slave ship.

I am NOT condoning slavery. Of course it was a hideous institution and a hold-over from barbaric days and barbaric ways of thought.

And of course no non-Muslim today would ever even THINK of owning another human being.

But the fact remains, if I were a Black American I would thank God for the suffering that my ancestors had to endure, suffering that enabled me to grow up here, in the United States, rather than any of the stink-hole nation-states on the African continent.

Again, I’m not saying slavery was a good thing and of course slave owners didn’t own slaves for the sake of the future welfare of the slaves’ descendents.

But the fact remains, without the historical fact of slavery and the slave trade, Black Americans would have all grown up in horrible stink-holes in Africa.

And by the way, some of those stink-holes are ruled by Arab Muslims who, in fact, HOLD BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES TODAY... a fact ignored by every liberal and leftist on Planet Earth.

[Woodman]

If you want to get a good idea of what George Washington the man was like, read this book http://www.amazon.com/George-Washingtons-War-Revolutionary-Presidency/dp/140220406X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330603066&sr=1-2 “George Washington's War” by Bruce Chadwick. He had what many would consider an extreme sense of justice. He had many men flogged or hung for desertion, but at the same time refused the Continental Congresses orders to confiscate provisions for his Army and made sure the founders bills were paid.

[Altura Ct.]

Indeed if anyone should have a holiday it would be Washington. Certainly not Michael King, aka MLK, the poster child for Socialist everywhere.

[The Duke]

What an Idiot,words Fail me, You Buffoon

I'm no buffoon, nor am I an idiot. I'm also not somebody who's going to march down the street beating the drum without being fully informed.

I've spent years studying many aspects of US and World history, but have not yet studied Washington specifically. I believe any of our founding fathers who owned slaves should be studied carefully in the cold light of day.

[annieokie]

Yes, I know we agree. Just adding what I knew for the benefit of others. There is so much to learn about those times. I have tried to read as many books as I can find about the General, every now and then I will find one/some of my KIN named, they were neighbors.

[ladyjane]

Apparently that is his record. He very definitely plagiarized his dissertation at Boston University. Verbatim sentences and paragraphs. At least 40% or more is not his. That is major league plagiarizing. Re the adultery, the FBI was following him because of his ties to the communist party and apparently documented his liaisons with prostitutes. His preference was white prostitutes. He was with two of them the night before he died. MLK was no George Washington.

[DoughtyOne]

I would like to add to your thoughts about the history of slavery in America, something that never gets mentioned:  Okay, thank you.

There was no other Road To America for black Africans than the slave ship.  I agree.

I am NOT condoning slavery. Of course it was a hideous institution and a hold-over from barbaric days and barbaric ways of thought.

I agree here, and I would ask folks to consider what was taking place in the world at the time.  Europe was itself not a particularly enlightened continent at the time.  Africa was still deepest darkest Africa.  Asia wasn't free from strife.  Russia was broiling.

Religious persecution was the norm in Europe.  People were not well educated as a whole.   People were escaping the European continent, to find a new destiny in the Americas.  Slavery that had existed for thousands of years, was still something that was being conducted.  I'm not proud of it, and I don't know a single person who is.  None the less it was our nation and others who decided that our societies would stop the practice, elevate the former slaves to equal status with others, and transition them to full class citizens over time.  Slavery died out in part because of the United States.  Yes, some of it's citizens were generational offenders, but we as a people came to the conclusion that we didn't want to treat people that way, and we endured a very destructive war to end it.

For the first time in recorded history, slavery was effectively being eradicated.  This took place in no small part here, as a result of our Founding Documents.  They included language that heralded the rights of man.  And those rights weren't limited to just certain men.  It covered all men.  I know some people will make a big deal out of the use of the word man here, but it was meant in those days by extention to mean humanity, covering women and children too.  Contining with the same thought, I know that people will also address the issue that women were not given rights in the day, and that is true.  None the less, the Founding Documents did lead to full rights for every breathing human.  It was the first set of Founding Documents by any government to do so. It granted those rights because those rights were gifted from God.  No government should be able to infringe upon them.

Continuing, people will also say that the only reason women and Blacks have rights today, is becasue they fought for them.   To an extent, I agree.  None the less, without those Founding Documents there would have been no basis for those folks to claim equal rights under the U. S. Constitution.

Yes, we conducted slavery, as other societies had since the dawn of man.  And yes, we were one of the first societies in human history to universally abolish it.

And of course no non-Muslim today would ever even THINK of owning another human being.  Shhhh... ;^)

But the fact remains, if I were a Black American I would thank God for the suffering that my ancestors had to endure, suffering that enabled me to grow up here, in the United States, rather than any of the stink-hole nation-states on the African continent.

On the one hand, I understand where you are coming from, and there is a broad vein of truth running through it.  None the less, we can't prescribe the personal perceptions family heirs have to something like ancestrial slavery.  I reflect back on Joseph from the Bible, a man sold into slavery who so dedicated his life to God and indentured servitude, that he rose above it all to become one of the most respected men of not only his host slavery owning nation, but humankind through the ages.  He was given the right to move his family there to live in peace and freedom.  He was a man that has been remember favorably through the ages, for thousands of years.  This was a man that was himself the initial slave, and he achieved this.  Now we have people who haven't had a slave in their family for close to 150 years, and still can't shake it off.  Racism made it almost impossible for a considerable length of time, but even so there were insprired achievers like George Washington Carver, Booker T. Washington and others who did.  Certainly in the day and age we now live in, advanced achievement is possible, and quite likely if a person applies themself.        

Again, I’m not saying slavery was a good thing and of course slave owners didn’t own slaves for the sake of the future welfare of the slaves’ descendents.  I agree, and I understand the dynamic your addressing here.

But the fact remains, without the historical fact of slavery and the slave trade, Black Americans would have all grown up in horrible stink-holes in Africa.

I agree with this, but I also firmly believe that if someone was taken to heaven against their will, they would regret losing family, friends, and their former societies.  Choice, doing something because you wanted to after weighing the pros and cons, is vitally important to humans.  Resentment follows the absense of this.  Yes the United States is much more advanced, as you have addressed it, but some folks cannot get over having been plucked from their heritage.  I can understand that, and I'm sure you can too.  At some point in time though, what has happened needs to be accepted and let go of.  We can't undo things.  The most desiring and capable person on the planet, with a vast willing following, couldn't do that.  I am sorry for what happened, but at some point people have to agree to move on.  Frankly, I think most folks have.  You have your race baiters and their followers, but most folks get it.  We hear the loud mouthed race baitors, and the folks they have misled, but for the most part I think Blacks have moved on.  I respect the people who have.  I am saddened by the folks who can't.  I don't think it brings them happiness.

And by the way, some of those stink-holes are ruled by Arab Muslims who, in fact, HOLD BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES TODAY... a fact ignored by every liberal and leftist on Planet Earth.

Yes, that is true.  It's a real shame too.  What I find ironic, is that the only special interest group on the planet that still practices slavery, is the one that attracts Blacks the most to join it's ranks.  It is done in no small part as a rebellion against the nation that abolished slavery on it's shores, but alligns them none the less with an entity that still does condone slavery.

Thanks for the comments.  You raise some valid points, and it was nice to be able to bounce thoughts off them.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you AnnieOkie. Relatives that were neighbors, how cool is that!

[The Duke]

Thanks much for the book recommendation. I will definitely check that out. :)

[annieokie]

It is cool. The General wrote about them in his diaries, over to dine with him, fox hunting, etc. One was Invited to his funeral, that is a wow for me.

Knowing this through genealogy has been a help for my grandchildren in their school work.

I love reading about those times, and wonder if I could have made it. Guess I would if I were there, but I doubt that I would ever have left ENGLAND, no sir, not getting on that Mayflower, send me a card. rofl.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you LadyJane.

Please bear with me as I make comments about things I know you are aware of.  I still think it's important for people to read comments like this from time to time, so here goes.

I had heard of some of these things before, and I think you are right to address them. I had heard of the plagiarism before, but the particulars had slipped my mind. As for the FBI following people, in those days you weren’t anyone of note if the FBI wasn’t on your tail. Hoover had a file on many public figures. I’ve heard of the womanizing King had done also. It was another blight on his image.  As for his connection to Communist figures, that may be true.  With the Cold War at it's zenith, I think it was somewhat of a national security concern.  It was worth keeping an eye on IMO.

I guess the point for me is this. Even if King was perfect, Washington was our Founding Father. King, while a highly visible flawed and yet also positive public figure wasn’t the only person trying to win civil rights for Blacks. You (well maybe not you, but most people) would be amazed to know how many White public figures and people behind the scenes were working for civil rights and walking with King on those marches.

He made some important speeches, and participated in a movement to achieve civil rights for blacks. Other Black public figures advocated for the same thing. Civil rights attorneys were hard at work. Most of them were probably White civil rights attorneys.

I'm not here to trash King, because I do respect what he was trying to achieve.  At the same time, I do recognize that the Left in the United States adopted him as a cause celebre, after in many instances fighting against what he wanted to achieve for more than one hundred years.  And they did it purely for public relations purposes.  Who for the most part were the slave owners going back hundreds of years?  In most instances they were the Dixie Democrats.  The names of George Wallace, Orval Faubus, and Robert Byrd come to mind, when you think about the highly visible champions of racism against Blacks in King's day.  Peope who think the Demcrats have always championed civil rights, are dead wrong.  Byrd, an ex klan leader and recruiter served as a Democrat in the U. S. Congress into the 21st Century.

Civil rights bills would never have been passed, without a significant contribution of Republican politicians.  Left to the Democrats, this Legislation was dead in a Democrat majority Congress.

I love Ronald Reagan, and what he did for our nation.  What most folks don't think about is that he brought about the end of the Cold War without firing a shot. That was a monumental achievement for humanity, presenting freedom hundreds of millions of humans across Europe and Asia. He caused a number of nations in Central and South America to leave communist governments or movements also. That’s far superior to what King helped achieve.

Numerous entire nations exist today, because of Ronald Reagan. Some of them drew up their Founding Documents based on ours.  Ronald Reagan is a hero to the citizens of those nations.  Many more nations are free self-determining nations because of Ronald Reagan, and they reverence him also.

Because of Ronald Reagan, the lives of people on at least four Continents were vastly improved, hundreds of millions given sovereign self-determination for the first time in decades.

Reagan had direct positive impact on the lives of upwards of one billion people on planet earth. Asia, Europe, South America, and North America, benefited from Ronald Reagan.  King had direct impact on the lives of a few tens of millions U. S. Citizens.  That's not meant to denigrate King.  It's merely an attempt to keep things in perspective.

Would I want to see Reagan knock George Washington’s birthday off the calender? No.

In the same way Washington and our Founding Fathers made Ronald Reagan possible, he and they made Martin Luther King possible.

Without our form of government, an MLK would not have been possible. Imagine him trying to participate in the same type of movement in the U. S. S. R., China, or any number of Asian, European, Middle-Eastern, African, or even Central and South American nations.

People really do need to get a grip with regard to King.  The memory of him should not be destroyed, but it shouldn't cause folks to supersede more important figures in our nation's rich history either.

Thanks for bearing with me...

[DoughtyOne]

Of course it’s a wow for you. Darn right. That kind of thing and the research does appeal to me. I’m starting to do a little digging myself.

You know, the option to come to the new world in the day, was appealing to folks who were experiencing difficulties and particularly governmental institutionalized religious intolerance.

If you were down on your luck, the New World looked like a path to freedom. I’ll bet you would have done well under those circumstances.

[annieokie]

Interesting point on your BET. lol

Sitting comfortably at my desk, I can say you lose. I am basically a coward and do not like risks, but you have a good point.

I have also said I would never have made that miserable wagon trip west, but glad mine did. Hard life.

Think of this: What if space travel and a planet that would sustain life were available. Then think of the earth being destroyed by mans wars. Would you go onboard a space ship if it were offered?

That is a hard one for me. I am an old coward. rofl. But, I would fund my grandchildren the chance to go.