Posted on 02/04/2012 9:35:22 AM PST by marktwain
The Marietta Times is reporting that the Ohio State Highway Patrol (OSHP) is voicing concerns about HB422, legislation that seeks to repeal requirements that a concealed carry licensee inform an approaching law enforcement officer that the licensee is a licensee and is carrying a concealed handgun.
From the article:
House Bill 422, jointly sponsored by Reps. Ron Maag, R-Lebanon, and Andy Thompson, R-Marietta, would amend the current state code to remove a requirement that during a traffic stop drivers must notify police officers if they're carrying a firearm."The patrol has concerns from a public safety viewpoint, not only for our officers, but also for motorists and their passengers," said Lt. Anne Ralston, spokeswoman for the Ohio State Highway Patrol.
She said rules in the state law that govern licensing to carry concealed firearms have been through several changes over the years and HB 422 is the just latest proposal for a change.
"Currently when I have contact with a motorist who has a concealed carry permit, the motorist is required to say 'I'm a concealed carry permit holder' when I approach the vehicle," Ralston said. "The patrol has a primary concern that repealing the requirement could impact officer and driver safety."
She said representatives from the patrol would be making those concerns known to legislators in the next few weeks when hearings on HB 422 are expected to take place.
And so, after sitting on the sidelines for four years under Strickland, the OSHP once again supports restricting your firearm rights, as they so often did during the Taft years.
Again, from the article:
[Bill co-sponsor Rep. Andy] Thompson said the amending legislation is basically focused on preventing confusion for drivers who have permits to carry a concealed weapon."Right now the driver has to put both hands on the wheel and announce he has a permit," Thompson said. "We're trying to make the law a little less bureaucratic."
He noted that Ohio is one of only four states that currently have such a mandate.
"For those who have passed the concealed carry permit test and meet the requirements, this could put them in a misdemeanor situation and they could lose their permit," Thompson said, adding that if a driver forgets to tell an officer he has a permit, the officer has the right to cite the motorist and suspend the concealed carry license.
"It streamlines the current law, eliminates unnecessary conflict and prevents the potential loss of concealed carry licenses," he said. "But I would want the support of law enforcement to make this change."
While Marietta Police Chief Brett McKitrick said he, too, had some concerns about the proposal, he also admitted to the newspaper that "everyone who has a concealed carry permit in Ohio knows what to do. We stop many people who have concealed carry permits and they're usually law abiding citizens."
And while Washington County Chief Deputy Mark Warden also expressed concern, he admitted that "anytime an officer approaches a vehicle he's concerned about the possibility of a weapon. It's something you always keep in the back of your mind."
Warden also added that when he pulls a vehicle over for a traffic violation he enters the license plate number into his computer and is immediately notified if the driver has a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
"We can also tell by running the registration," he is quoted as saying.
During Democrat Ted Strickland's term as governor, the OSHP was completely silent during debate on concealed carry reform legislation (SB184), which was passed and signed into law, and resulted in several improvements that pertained to license-holders and motor vehicles.
However, the OSHP was a vocal opponent of Ohio's original concealed carry bill (and its predecessors) during the Bob Taft administration, and was used by then-Gov. Taft, a Republican, to explain why he was going back on a campaign promise, saying that he would only support a bill that had OSHP support.
John Born, who was appointed by John Kasich as OSHP superintendent, once acted as the voice of the Taft-era OSHP. On February 13, 2003, Born was quoted as saying "We do not want a loaded firearm readily accessible to the driver of a car. If there's a dangerous situation and you're in your car, you can drive off."
Pro-CCW activists actually started keeping a victim count of all the people who tried to follow his ridiculous advice - and coined a term for what often happened to people who tried to just "drive off" when attacked. We called it "getting Borned."
During the lengthy fight against Born, the OSHP and Taft to get passage of the bill that finally brought concealed carry to the Buckeye State (HB12), at least two men died (see here and here) trying to follow Born's advice.
Born's appointment to the OSHP's top post prompted fears of dark days ahead for pro-gun legislation, and unfortunately, early opposition by the OSHP to HB422 suggests those fears were warranted.
Chad D. Baus is the Buckeye Firearms Association Vice Chairman.
“We can also tell by running the registration,” he is quoted as saying.
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The person driving the car may not be the one with the concealed carry permit. If you have a CHL and others drive your car, you better tell them not to get too squirrely with the cops if they get pulled-over.
Down here in Texas I personally don’t have a problem informing an officer that I’m licensed and carrying.
What I do have a problem with is overzealous cops that go into panic mode and disarm you before proceeding with the speeding ticket.
Tough balance because there is such an abundance of stupid nowadays.
Your record with your state's DMV is already flagged with that information........
I know in MA that State Troopers already KNOW that you are an LTC holder before they get out of their vehicle. This is because they have already run your plates and can see all they need to before approaching.
Do not the OSHP have the same ability? If they say they don't, I think they lie.
Warden also added that when he pulls a vehicle over for a traffic violation he enters the license plate number into his computer and is immediately notified if the driver has a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
“We can also tell by running the registration,” he is quoted as saying.
This is one reason why our cars are registered to an LLC (out of state - in a well-selected state). They are “company cars.” That way, the cop doesn’t know we’re CHL licensees until he’s had a chance to meet us and see we aren’t dirtbags.
Less risk of a twitchy cop that way.
When I retired form LE from Cal and moved to AZ I was naturally carrying concealed. I have been stopped by LEOs that
1) never gave me the chance to tell them i was armed, and
2) took my firearm even after I finally got around to telling them I was armed and that I was a retired LEO.
Now that I am back on active duty in another state, I still believe people have the right to carry a firearm. I approached everybody “knowing” that they are armed. I do not have to prone them out in order to maintain my safety. It is a matter of staying in “condition yellow” and watching.
And for the a**hats that want to know how many dogs I shot, It was one that had teeth 6 inches long and was going for my crotch.
I started this work in 1974
I think it is important to review this instructional video by Mr. Chris Rock: “How Not To Get Your *ss Kicked By The Police”. NSFW!(salty language), but very funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfkrw57VnAU
Some of the best humor is based on reality.
Importantly, when considering gun rights at traffic stops, this is far too often what police encounter, which most certainly gives them a jaundiced view of citizen behavior at traffic stops.
Critically, it is also vital to remember that from the point of view of both the FBI and the DEA, there is an epidemic of steroid abuse by LEOs at the state and local level. So no matter if armed or not, it is to everyone’s benefit if the situation remains calm.
Ohio Ping!
In other words, a CCW-holder has more to fear from the cop, than the cop has to fear from him/her.
Don’t overlook the possibility that the driver is someone other than the registered owner...
Apart from that, I do not believe that the announcement should be necessary or required. Quite honestly, someone bent on shooting a police officer is not likely to comply, anyway.
As a former LEO, my training and my habit was to approach EVERY vehicle, building, and person as if it were a firearm situation; and to ALWAYS err on the side of caution.
In other words, a CCW-holder has more to fear from the cop, than the cop has to fear from him/her.
Worth repeating, even if both are natural allies. Too many police have an us vs them attitude.
In most states that have had CCW for a few years, the police recognize that CCW holders are their allies.
I view it as a "gotcha" clause. The LEOs I know wouldn't use that as an excuse to arrest someone who was pulled over for a routine speeding ticket and wasn't obnoxious to the officer.......
The only time I was pulled over for speeding while carrying my firearm, I couldn't even force the officer to view my permit let alone show him the firearm.
I play softball and volleyball with a number of retired LEO's, all from Detroit and surrounding communities, and every single one strongly supports our right to carry here in Michigan.....
"Currently when I have contact with a motorist who has a concealed carry permit, the motorist is required to say 'I'm a concealed carry permit holder' when I approach the vehicle," Ralston said. "The patrol has a primary concern that repealing the requirement could impact officer and driver safety."
The above statement is slightly misleading. If you are a licensee and are not carrying a concealed handgun, this does not apply.
Again, If you are not carrying a concealed weapon, you don't have to say anything. When I was stopped for a minor traffic violation, the police asked me where my weapon was. I told him I have a CCW permit, but no weapon. Of course he already knew I had a permit after running my plate, before approaching the vehicle.
Like anything, I imagine it happens by fits and starts in a given area. For example:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/12/nj_steroids_cops_firemen_inves.html
“N.J. lawmakers call for probe into steroid use by hundreds of law enforcement officers, firefighters”
Ohio pings..
I can see why you are offended, because such statements impugn the integrity of LEOs. However my original argument was that the DEA and FBI are the ones warning police departments that they need to keep a look out for abuse.
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/brochures/steroids/lawenforcement/index.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3745740&page=1
http://hghwatch.com/policefiremenmilitary.html
Yet another reason to hate the pigs and revenue collectors.
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