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The Haditha Marines-The Squad Leader-A Final Chapter (SSgt Wuterich-Master Thread)
1-2-2012

Posted on 01/02/2012 10:28:48 AM PST by smoothsailing

January 2, 2012

The Haditha Marines-The Squad Leader-A Final Chapter

It certainly seems appropriate that the last defendant in the Haditha case is the squad leader, SSgt Frank Wuterich. Leaders take responsibility, and SSgt Wuterich has taken full responsibility for the actions of his squad in Haditha. His stance from the outset has remained clear:

"My Marines responded to the threats they faced in the manner that we all had been trained", he has steadfastly maintained. "I will bear the memory of the events of that day forever, and will always mourn the unfortunate deaths of the innocent Iraqis who were killed during our response to the attack."

As the last Marine originally charged in the deaths of Iraqis in Haditha, Iraq in 2005, SSgt Wuterich will be seated at the defense table in his general court-martial two days from now, Wednesday, January 4th. Barring last minute motions or outright dismissal of charges, jury selection will begin Wednesday or Thursday. SSgt. Wuterich will be tried by a jury of combat-experienced Marines, and the panel will include at least two Marines from the enlisted ranks.

Much has been written over the last six years about Haditha, and links to some of the most recent news articles and commentaries are included at the bottom of this post to help bring readers up to date. For older Free Republic postings, please use this link or enter the keyword Haditha in the Free Republic search engine.

The purpose of this Free Republic thread is to serve as a "Master Post" where trial news and updates can be brought together in one place for easy reference by those interested in following the proceedings as they unfold.

Freepers Smoothsailing, Red Rover, and Jazusamo will monitor the thread, post updates, and attempt to answer questions or direct readers to information sources. Jazusamo maintains the Haditha Marine Ping List. Please ask Jazusamo to be added to the ping list if you wish to be alerted to updates.

Recent News and Commentary:

MILITARY TIMES-Haditha Marine Faces Trial

Count Down to the Last Haditha Trial

MILITARY: Two high-profile cases set for Pendleton courtrooms

Remember SSgt Frank D. Wuterich: The last Haditha Marine goes on trial

Don’t rewrite Murtha’s legacy (Haditha Marines)


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Extended News; Free Republic; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: defendourmarines; haditha; wuterich
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To: Lancey Howard

I don’t know how quick it’s going to be. It’s really a huge file.


501 posted on 02/03/2012 6:37:08 PM PST by RedRover
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To: RedRover; jazusamo; 4woodenboats; American Cabalist; AmericanYankee; AndrewWalden; Antoninus; ...
This is the best explanation I've seen of the type of discharge Frank will receive, and why. It is an excerpt of a comment on the CAAFlog (a military justice blog). The poster is Charlie Gittins (A retired Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel with extensive experience as supervisory defense counsel and appellate defense counsel).

An OTH(Other Than Honorable) is not authorized because he is held past his EAOS(End of Active Obligated Service). He will get, or he will end up, awarded by the BCNR(Board for Correction of Naval Records), an Honorable discharge. He is entitled to a “type warranted by service record” characterization of discharge. Negligent dereliction of duty is an simple disorder (3 months max, no BCD[Bad Conduct Discharge] authorized). With the MJ(Military Judge) knowing there was a PTA(Pre-Trial Agreement) to negligent dereliction, he was fully protected to impose a maximum sentence — he would “look strong” on good order and discipline knowing that the G(Government) had folded on the least significant charge they could agree to and there must be some sentence limitation that would protect the accused. It was a no lose for the MJ — no courage in his decision — sentence to the max and see what the Defense extracted from the Government in a case where the G has essentially proved the defense. That this went to trial is an embarrassment to the hundreds of years of prosecutors who have sought justice.

I also like what Charlie has to say about the nature of the Iraq war, and particularly his opinion of the P's and the JA's (prosecutors)

I totally get it re: the war — we were trying to save the peeps living next door to the terrorists — that is a failed policy decision. Once the shooting started with a dead Marine in Haditha, all bets were off; it was all about Americans living and bad guys dying and I have to tell you, there is no amount of dead non-Americans that I would trade for one dead Marine. That is just me and my experience dealing with terrorist fucks trying to kill our peeps. If you feel differently, that is cool, but I doubt most LCPLS would agree.

Our war planning was a total embarrassment and this case helped to expose it. We created after-the-fact rules of engagement to address Haditha and the prosecution tried to apply the ex post facto rules to what our troops had been told at the time. The P JAs are criminals in my mind; they tried to commit a fraud by applying later ROA to the events in Haditha. At the time of Haditha, Marines were trained to conduct a a house clearing by throwing a grenade in the room and spraying the room with bullets. That the procedure later changed is fine, but the P’s tried to argue that you had to P’ID(positively identify) before shooting and that was just NOT true, as numerous officer and senior enlisted witnesses testified on cross examination during the G case in chief. Arguing to the contrary, in my opinion, is trying to perpetrate a fraud on the court. In a perfect world, the P’s would stand trial for dereliction of duty. But they saved themselves by negotiating an agreement that salvaged a conviction, even if it was totally bogus and everyone knows it.

Haditha was a bad deal, but the terrorists brought it on themselves. They chose the place; they chose the manner. It is unfortunate that innocents died, but that is war and it is a war they chose to seek in a time and place in their own country.

502 posted on 02/04/2012 5:38:56 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing

>> “the G(Government) had folded on the least significant charge they could agree to “

That was my initial reaction. The G is also a well-funded persecution machine, and the threat of that is nothing to casually dismiss.

>> “Haditha was a bad deal, but the terrorists brought it on themselves. They chose the place; they chose the manner. It is unfortunate that innocents died,”

Another point that I know many of us maintain as fact; it was the insurgents that knowingly exposed the innocent lives.


503 posted on 02/04/2012 6:05:47 PM PST by Gene Eric (C'mon, Virginia -- are you with us or against us?!)
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To: smoothsailing
Thanks for the ping. That's a great post, and Charlie Gittens sounds my kind of Marine. Now there's a Marine who understands "Semper Fidelis".

At the time of Haditha, Marines were trained to conduct a a house clearing by throwing a grenade in the room and spraying the room with bullets.

As I posted a couple of weeks ago, I can tell you for a fact, that is exactly the way SOI at Camp Geiger was training Marines to clear houses in the fall of 2007. Throw a grenade into every room before entering and firing. The fall of 2007 was 2 years after the Haditha ambush and more than a year after the cowardly perfumed princes of the panty-waist Pentagon ran like scared bunny rabbits from a TIME Magazine hit piece and pressed charges against a fine squad of Marine combat veterans.

504 posted on 02/04/2012 6:25:05 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
Now there's a Marine who understands "Semper Fidelis".

That was my reaction as well. Charlie Gittins gets it.

505 posted on 02/04/2012 6:38:11 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: smoothsailing; RedRover; jazusamo; 4woodenboats; Girlene; Lancey Howard; xzins

There was something—a briefing before Haditha—where a Marine was killed when he entered a house and hesitated to fire at a person hiding under a blanket and was killed by that (insurgent). So the troops were told to shoot anyone hiding under blankets.

Anyone remember that?


506 posted on 02/04/2012 6:38:13 PM PST by bigheadfred (Bang a gong)
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To: bigheadfred

I don’t remember it, but it sure makes sense, obviously a blanket can hide a weapon.


507 posted on 02/04/2012 6:43:28 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: bigheadfred
Anyone remember that?

I sure do.
I compiled a folder full of "ROE" threads and articles, and if I get some time I can look it up.

508 posted on 02/04/2012 6:56:48 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: smoothsailing; Gene Eric; Lancey Howard; bigheadfred; RedRover; All
That the procedure later changed is fine, but the P’s tried to argue that you had to P’ID(positively identify) before shooting and that was just NOT true

Thanks much for this post Smooth. It can't be said any better than Charlie Gittins said it. On top of that Haditha was a hot bed of insurgents and everyone knew it.

509 posted on 02/04/2012 7:00:12 PM PST by jazusamo (Character assassination is just another form of voter fraud: Thomas Sowell)
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To: Gene Eric
“Haditha was a bad deal, but the terrorists brought it on themselves. They chose the place; they chose the manner. It is unfortunate that innocents died,”

Yes, and those "innocents" watched as insurgent terrorists buried a massive bomb in the road in front of their houses and paved it over to disguise it. Remember the girl who told CNN she was getting ready for school when she heard the convoy coming, so she covered her ears because she knew there was going to be a loud explosion?

Maybe those "innocents" found themselves between a rock and a hard place, I don't know, but oh well.. Look at them now. War is hell. The deaths of those people must be laid solely at the feet of an enemy that used them for human shields, with or without their complicity.

Meanwhile, everybody forgets about Miguel Terrazas.

510 posted on 02/04/2012 7:06:18 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

You don’t have to look it up for me, Lancey.

The “insurgents”, with malice aforethought, put their women and kids in harms way. And they are the lowest of the low.

Our government, blaming our troops when “civilians” were killed in these engagements, was also done with malice aforethought.

And I will never be able to forgive that. I’m not even going to try.


511 posted on 02/04/2012 7:11:36 PM PST by bigheadfred (Bang a gong)
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To: smoothsailing
Thanks for the explanation about SSGt Wuterich's discharge, smooth.

Charles Gittins successfully defended Lt. Illario Pantano.
512 posted on 02/04/2012 7:11:55 PM PST by Girlene
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To: jazusamo

I like Gittins. He was CPT Randy Stone’s lawyer during Stone’s Art.32 hearing. He’s very familiar with the facts of Haditha, so his opinion carries extra weight, IMO.


513 posted on 02/04/2012 7:23:30 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: Girlene
Charles Gittins successfully defended Lt. Illario Pantano

Thanks Girl! He also successfully defended CPT Randy Stone, one of our Haditha Marines!

514 posted on 02/04/2012 7:28:57 PM PST by smoothsailing
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To: bigheadfred
There was something—a briefing before Haditha—where a Marine was killed when he entered a house and hesitated to fire at a person hiding under a blanket and was killed by that (insurgent). So the troops were told to shoot anyone hiding under blankets. Anyone remember that?

It was the Haditha hospital. Insurgents infiltrated the hospital, hid under blankets with AK-47's and attacked when Marines came through to secure the hospital. The Haditha Marines were briefed on these incidents that happened prior to their arrival.
515 posted on 02/04/2012 7:35:55 PM PST by Girlene
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To: smoothsailing
He also successfully defended CPT Randy Stone, one of our Haditha Marines!

That's right....thanks for the reminder, smooth.
516 posted on 02/04/2012 7:43:55 PM PST by Girlene
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To: Girlene; bigheadfred

There was also at least one “blanket” situation in a house, as bigheadfred described it, and some other cases where terrorists played dead only to “wake up” and take out a couple more Marines before getting killed for sure. Early in the Iraq war our guys would routinely put an extra bullet into heads to “make sure”, just so this kind of thing wouldn’t happen. Then, of course, the “embedded reporters” (yeah, what a great idea) had a field day reporting “atrocities”.


517 posted on 02/04/2012 7:51:38 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

Probably so, Lancey. Fallujah was fraught with this type of stuff, as I remember.


518 posted on 02/04/2012 8:06:27 PM PST by Girlene
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To: Lancey Howard

>> The deaths of those people must be laid solely at the feet of an enemy that used them for human shields,

That’s been my argument from day one!

Regarding the use of the term ‘innocent’, I suppose it’s meant to describe the women and children non-combatants that have no explicit role in the attacks on US assets or personnel. Whether they’re innocent in the truest sense of the word is not something I can reasonably determine.

>> Meanwhile, everybody forgets about Miguel Terrazas.

Forget? There’s plenty to suggest too many don’t care.


519 posted on 02/04/2012 8:08:36 PM PST by Gene Eric (C'mon, Virginia -- are you with us or against us?!)
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To: jazusamo
>> On top of that Haditha was a hot bed of insurgents and everyone knew it.

And elsewhere...

A War Hero Is Vindicated–Again

Pantano's own story
[Ilario Pantano] eventually found himself in dangerous Anbar province, Iraq, in winter 2004, leading his platoon in do-or-die counterinsurgency missions. One April evening, he fatally shot two insurgents. Rather than a pat on the back, Mr. Pantano found himself charged with murder by the Corps.

520 posted on 02/04/2012 8:23:12 PM PST by Gene Eric (C'mon, Virginia -- are you with us or against us?!)
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