Posted on 12/07/2011 6:21:38 PM PST by Hojczyk
By a peculiar twist of fate, the Japanese admiral who masterminded the attack had persistently warned his government not to fight the United States. Had his countrymen listened, the history of the 20th century might have turned out much differently.
Adm. Isoroku Yamamoto foresaw that the struggle would become a prolonged war of attrition that Japan could not hope to win. For a year or so, he said, Japan might overrun locally weak Allied forces — but after that, its war economy would stagger and its densely built wood-and-paper cities would suffer ruinous air raids. Against such odds, Yamamoto could “see little hope of success in any ordinary strategy.” His Pearl Harbor operation, he confessed, was “conceived in desperation.” It would be an all-or-nothing gambit, a throw of the dice: “We should do our best to decide the fate of the war on the very first day.”
During the Second World War and for years afterward, Americans despised Yamamoto as an archvillain, the perpetrator of an ignoble sneak attack, a personification of “Oriental treachery.” Time magazine published his cartoon likeness on its Dec. 22, 1941, cover — sinister, glowering, dusky yellow complexion — with the headline “Japan’s Aggressor.” He was said to have boasted that he would “dictate terms of peace in the White House.”
Yamamoto made no such boast — the quote was taken out of context from a private letter in which he had made precisely the opposite point. He could not imagine an end to the war short of his dictating terms in the White House, he wrote — and since Japan could not hope to conquer the United States, that outcome was inconceivable.
I
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
My interest in the Battle of Samar was more personally motivated: my grandfather was injured during the landings at Leyte Gulf. He very well might have died that day had it not been for the brave men of Taffy 3.
I was in Dutch Harbor (Unalaska) Alaska in 1969 when a disabled Japanese fishing vessel put into port. There was Damn near a riot by some of the old locals, they were still smarting from getting bombed and damage done by the Japanese in WW2.
Why because Wikipedia says so? There's a bastion of valid American research for you. In fact, 5 seconds on Google found at least this, though the author is obviously loathe to admit it. Nevertheless, it appeared he did indeed say it in an interview, and therefore probably off the record as well.
Because there's no evidence or documentation that he said it. No date. No name of the supposed paper he said it to. Moreover he was at Harvard between 1919-21, and served as an embassy attache from 1923-36. It's unlikely that he would have been interviewed as either a student or an attache, and doubtful if anyone in that period would have asked about Japan invading America.
It's impossible to prove that anyone didn't say anything. But unless someone can actually cite a source, including where he said it, and the date, it's not a credible quote.
Yamamoto may have proposed the Hawaii invasion as a deal-breaker to make Tojo and company realize the enormity of the war they were entering upon and the impossibility of ultimate success. If so, it was ignored.
This historian agrees with you. I also believe that Yamamoto would as well. I don’t think he truly felt he was in a winnable situation and only tried to apply the best strategy he could muster with the demands that were placed upon him.
Even if, as you said, all the Pacific carriers had been in port and sunk that day it would not have knocked the U.S. out of the war. It would have enraged the public just as soundly as the sinking of the battleships did. Even staunch isolationist Senator Wheeler (D - MT) suddenly changed his tune and called for the single minded goal of of defeating Japan. If the carriers had been sunk it only would have delayed the inevitable.
The Japanese really set themselves up for failure with their doctrine on pilot training. Whereas the U.S. had established a policy that cycled out pilots in order to train more pilots, the Japanese tended to run their pilots to destruction. The John S. Thach, for example, was sent to Pearl Harbor after Midway to train other pilots in the Beam Defense Position (Thach Weave).
At the same battle of Midway, most of the pilots who flew against Pearl Harbor will downed and killed. They didn’t rotate them out for training purposes and as a result, the quality of the Japanese pilot diminished. This coupled with their noted deficiency in materials just exasperated the problem.
Yet another reason to love and support FR: the ability to have informed, well reasoned, discussions such as this.
Thank you all.
Actually, one of the crewmen of the mini-sub became the first Japanese prisoner of war.
Japanese naval theory still held that the battleship was the main threat-—and the only reason why they had aircraft carriers was the Washington treaty put a limit on how many the United States and Japan could build. Many of the Japanese aircraft carriers used in the attack—along with the Saratoga and Lexington were built on battleship hulls. Hence, the massive concentration of the PH attack.
The Japanese missed the carrier Enterprise by mere hours—some of the Big’s E scout planes arrived over Pearl during the attack and helped defend it. Other planes arrived from the Enterprise hours later and were shot down by American gunnners thinking that it was a third wave of the Japanese attacks.
The Japanese never thought that the Americans would fight World War II. They thought that they could seize as much as they could and sue for peace. Remember the Americans just lost an entire generation of men fighting World War I, which was nothing more than a family fued among the kings and queens of Europe.
Yamamoto was very concerned about starting a war with America. He didn’t say the “sleeping giant” quote attributed to him, but he did say that he would go along with the attack because his Emporer commanded it.
The Japanese were actually suppose to declare war on the United States before the attack began, but problems with the communications cables delayed them from formally telling the Sec. of State about their intentions. By the time that they were ready, the Sec of State found out the news (remember Hawaii is five or six hours ahead of Washington D.C.)
The Declaration of War on December 8 passed both houses with near unamious support. The only one who didn’t vote for war was Jeanette Rankin, US-representative from Utah, a Republican. She also voted against World War I. She was a pacifist.
Back to the top.
I've often wondered about what words were exchanged between Rommel and Patton upon first meeting in the hereafter. "Well, fancy meeting YOU here" comes to mind.
Check out the link in post 34. According to the author of the aricle the Americans built roughly 140 carriers to about 12, I think for the Japanese during WW-II. Escorts, DDs, DEs, etc were built at about a 10 to 1 ratio in favor of the US.
Granted over 100 of the carriers were CVEs. Oof course 100 CVEs gives you the abilty to put close to 2000 aircraft up!!!
And you comments regards Japanese pilot training/ usage were spot on. The Japanese went for very high quality in training pilots and they were unable to cope with the losses.
Regards
alfa6 ;>}
Can’t say as I blame the locals. I’d probably feel pretty much the same way.
Unless you have nightcrawler breath, I think you were looking for “bated”.
;-P
Yamamoto could do the the math.
California alone had more miles of railroad and paved road than all of Japan. US steel production, oil production, etc., all vastly outstripped that of Japan. The decision to go to war with the US was insane, an he knew it.
The pre-war IJN also had ridiculously difficult (and brutal!) training and high standards for aviators. This cut the pool of available aviators and made it difficult to replace losses.
Once the war turned against them, the standards were lowered, but the damage was done by then.
I guess you can lower the bar when you only expect them to fly the plane once. :)
Japanese Admiral
Someone at the table asked a Japanese Admiral why, with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland US forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness, Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast.
Commander Menard would never forget the crafty look on the Japanese Commander’s face as he frankly answered the question.
"You are right", he told the Americans. "We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand."
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" - Adolph Hitler
Hawaii is five or six hours ahead behind Washington D.C.
About this invading Hawaii thing. Not possible for the reasons others have already mention. loose of the element of surprise, not enough man power and shipping. But just for grins lets say the Japanese did take Hawaii, they would still lose, but instead of the USA having a Europe first policy it would have had a Pacific first policy. Japan would be defeated before Hitler, the Amercan people would demand that. So the real effect of taking Hawaii would be to give Hitler a freer hand for a couple of years. Now that would be a game changer, yes Japan would be defeated but would Hitler. hmmmmm, maybe, maybe not.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.