A Last Bastion of Civility, the South, Sees Manners Decline

The New York Times ^ | 11/1/11 | Kim Severson

[marshmallow]

ATLANTA — One August night, two men walked into a popular restaurant attached to this city’s fanciest shopping mall. They sat at the bar, ordered drinks and pondered the menu. Two women stood behind them.

A bartender asked if they would mind offering their seats to the ladies. Yes, they would mind. Very much.

Angry words came next, then a federal court date and a claim for more than $3 million in damages.

The men, a former professional basketball player and a lawyer, also happen to be black. The women are white. The men’s lawyers argued that the Tavern at Phipps used a policy wrapped in chivalry as a cloak for discriminatory racial practices.

After a week’s worth of testimony in September, a jury decided in favor of the bar.

Certainly, the owners conceded, filling the bar with women offers an economic advantage because it attracts more men. But in the South, they said, giving up a seat to a lady is also part of a culture of civility.

At least, it used to be. The Tavern at Phipps case, and a growing portfolio of examples of personal and political behavior that belies a traditional code of gentility, have scholars of Southern culture and Southerners themselves wondering if civility in the South is dead, or at least wounded.

“Manners are one of many things that are central to a Southerner’s identity, but they are not primary anymore. Things have eroded,” said Charles Reagan Wilson, a professor of history and Southern culture at the University of Mississippi.

To be sure, strict rules regarding courtesy and deference to others have historically been used as a way to enforce a social order in which women and blacks were considered less than full citizens.

[buccaneer81]

You must be mistaken, sir. Yes, we do have white trash but they wouldn’t move to Ohio.

Come to Columbus and Cincinnati and behold the trash.

Look up US-23 and note the label, "Hillbilly Highway."

[ßuddaßudd]

I can proudly say both my parents are from Savannah and raised me accordingly...▲

[buccaneer81]

I don’t see where the story says the women asked for the seats. The bartender asked the men to give up the seats for the women who were standing behind.

If the women accepted the seats, they're as bad as the bartender.

The bar was committing an act of discrimination, but as usual, men are treated as second class citizens in today's America.

[jagusafr]

“If you’re in line at the grocery store would you let the woman in line behind you go ahead of you? I think not.”

Not a fair comparison - at the grocery store, there’s probably good wine involved that needs imminent drinking. :-)

[traditional1]

If those were white women, and the seated men were black, I’m sure they offered to let them sit on their laps.....look around today.

[brytlea]

Well, I googled that, and got a wikipedia page all about good money and bad money. Who knew there was bad money. I thought all money was good! My world has been shattered....

[HangnJudge]

Damn yankees!...........

Yankees are like hemorrhoids

The ones who come down and go back up
are not so bad

The ones who come down and stay
are a pain in the .SS

Oh yes...
I was born in New Jersey
Moved to Atlanta in 1964

[brytlea]

Not me, altho I am strange...

[traditional1]

"The worst whoopin I ever received from my Father was after such an incident. We had a BBQ at my parents home, there were enough seats for all but one. I took it, and did not offer to give it to my female cousin when dad asked me to. I said, “I was here first”...I was about 16 or so. He picked me up by my collar...a little hair was involved, opened the back door with my face, opened the bedroom door with my face, then threw me into the bed. He said nicely, when you can apologize honestly, you can return to the party. I never left my room for the duration...lol. BIG MISTAKE, now he would be arrested. Of course then he would have left marks."

GREAT STORY!

I can identify with that, and today, I sure miss the Good ol' Days, when manners and decency prevailed.

[brytlea]

Awesome motto! Here in Palm Beach I try to smile at everyone I meet (some days it’s not possible, but most days I still do it). Most of the time I’m met with a scowl more often than not, but occasionally, the frowniest person will give me that look and I think..ok, its not working and then...they smile! Makes my day. :) I know I sound like Pollyanna, but really, what’s the point of not at least trying? I know they probably think I’m trying to steal their purse...

[atc23]

My blessed, sainted grandmother used to call anyone uncivilized -

“Blue Devils”

[texas_mrs]

I must agree that media regularly degrade and ridicule men. I have been complaining about if for some time now. But I respect my man and he respects me. He would readily give up his seat for a lady. I would give mine up as well for any older person of any gender. I think Southern hospitality still reigns here in Texas. For now, at least.

To say the bartender was discriminating sounds like words right out of the mouth of a liberal.

[DManA]

It is sort of an odd anecdote for a story about lost chivalry. In the olden days when men treated women with respect there was no rule about giving way to gals coming to belly up to the bar. They weren’t allowed into the bar.

[buccaneer81]

To say the bartender was discriminating sounds like words right out of the mouth of a liberal.

He was intentionally favoring one gender over another in a place of public accommodation. That is discrimination.

[brytlea]

I have to admit, I don’t recall a man ever offering me his bar stool, mostly because I don’t frequent bars. I don’t think I’ve ever gone into one unescorted. Of course, I was under the legal drinking age when I got married. :)

[Don Corleone]

members of a priviliged class, allowed to be crude, rude, lewd, and also

Tattooed... there, finished it.

[JustaDumbBlonde]

I believe there is a decline. Holding a door for anyone behind you, or for someone about to exit is something I was taught to do. These days young men don’t even have the courtesy of saying thank you.

[texas_mrs]

Here in Palm Beach I try to smile at everyone I meet

When I moved to San Antonio (from a town of 3,000) & would go out to lunch with my new friends, I would say HI to anybody who looked my way. My friends were mortified, because alot of them were men who they suspected were hitting on us.

When one of them (big-city girl) went 'back home' with me to visit, she noticed someone wave at me when we passed them on the county road & asked "Who was that?"
I said "I dunno."
"But you waved back." she said. I told her "Everyone waves at everybody here." She thought that was fantastic.

Funny how you don't really think about stuff like that until you see it from another's point of view.

[Ax]

I live in Palm Beach County as well. I like to think that I am at least as chivalrous as any of my contemporaries. You will note that the two guys in question were handed a menu which they were pondering. I would not give up my seat to anyone so they could sit while I tried to eat standing up.

[Bigg Red]

Manners used to be important until women wanted things both ways.

^^^
I must say I agree with you there.