Free speech vs. lying? Supreme Court to rule on Stolen Valor Act

LA Times ^ | October 17, 2011 | David D. Savage

[jazusamo]

The Supreme Court agreed Monday to hear an important First Amendment case to decide whether the freedom of speech includes a right to lie about military honors.

The justices voted to hear the government’s defense of the Stolen Valor Act, a 5-year-old law that makes it a crime to falsely claim to have earned medals for service in the U.S. armed forces.

The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals last year struck down the law on free-speech grounds and said the government cannot act as the “truth police” to punish lies that cause no direct harm.

“The sad fact is, most people lie about some aspects of their lives from time to time,” wrote Judge Milan Smith in a 2-1 decision. “Given our historical skepticism of permitting the government to police the line between truth and falsity, and between valuable speech and drivel, we presumptively protect all speech, including false statements.”

But U.S. Solicitor General Donald Verrilli Jr., in his appeal, said that “knowingly false” statements deserve little protection under the First Amendment. He pointed to laws against fraud that punish those who make false promises to obtain money and to laws against defamation that punish those who make false and hurtful claims that damage a person’s reputation.

[SoldierDad]

Ah, the 9th jerket court of slameels at it’s finest. Yes, let’s allow people to knowingly lie about receiving decorations they didn’t earn, that could just lead to their obtaining fraudulent services, employment, etc. etc./s

[stormer]

If politicians can lie about their own records of achievement or the records of their opponents in the course of campaigning, or lie about the consequences of action or inaction regarding policy decisions, there is no way anyone conflating, manufacturing, or embellishing a military record should be regarded as a criminal.

[jazusamo]

I believe there’s a good chance the 9th Circus will again be overturned. Lying for personal gain is fraud and people lying about false military achievement in most cases do it for gain of some kind, plus they’re scumbags.

[Stonewall Jackson]

I have met and worked with several individuals who are guilty of this. On the other hand, I’ve worked with some genuine heroes who are so humble about it that I didn’t know about their heroics until well after the fact.

[Red Badger]

Free Speech? If you lie to a police investigator that is a felony.........just ask Scooter Libbey..........

[Brookhaven]

I don’t kno why this is so complicated. It’s a matter of record. Either you received the medal or you didn’t. If you falsly claim to have received on, they you have commited fraud.

This is not puffery (the term for a salesman building up their product by saying things like “tastes great” or “goes on smother”) this is about a statment of fact, not opinion.

[jazusamo]

Because politicians do it doesn’t make it right. I’m for making it illegal for politicians to lie because they’re doing it for personal gain. Fat chance, huh?

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"He pointed to laws against fraud that punish those who make false promises to obtain money and to laws against defamation that punish those who make false and hurtful claims that damage a person’s reputation."

This judge is using examples that do not corrolate to this case. The above examples have to do with lying and damaging someone else or making money off of it. This Alverez (as far as I know) just lied to impress people. He didn't make any money off of anyone when he claimed to be a CMH recipient or playing hockey for the Detroit Red Wings. As terrible as I think lying about your service and war record is, if it does not damage anyone and you don't benefit by it, you should not be prosecuted for it. I know a lot of my fellow veterans disagree with me. But we fought to protect the first amendment. That's protecting the despicable speech as well as the speech we may agree with. We have to protect it all.

[jazusamo]

So true. I worked with a person for many years and we became personal friends. I knew he’d been in the Korean War and badly wounded but didn’t find out until a couple years ago he was awarded the DSC.

[jazusamo]

The office Alverez held on the Water Board was an elected office so it could be said he did gain from his lies.

[Ratman83]

Yeah, but did Scooter even lie or did he just not remember the conversation the same as someone else.

[WOBBLY BOB]

...plus they’re scumbags.(and useually dimrats.)

[SoldierDad]

Is not the 9th Jerket THE most overturned Appeals court in the U.S.?

[stormer]

Fat chance is right. But they have the temerity to tell people through legislation, “It's a crime to lie, but only if you do it about certain things.” The lies that politicians tell for a living are infinitely more damaging to our society than some guy bullshitting about being in the service. Assholes all...

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"The office Alverez held on the Water Board was an elected office so it could be said he did gain from his lies."

He was newly elected to the board and was introducing himself to the board. Sort of like, Hi my name is Alverez and I was in the Marines and am a CMH recipient. Exactly how did he gain from this? Perhaps in status in the eyes of the board member (if they believed him to begin with). But he did not gain in any other way, monetarily or otherwise.

If that is some sort of gain, I guess we can start prosecuting all the fisherman out there. Because everyone of us has made a sturgeon out of a sunfish in our stories...

[jazusamo]

Yes they are the most overturned Circuit, quite an accomplishment isn’t it? :-)

[SoldierDad]

Sorry, but lying about combat medals is not free speech. The Framers of the Constitution would disagree that protecting lies falls under a constitutional right. The First Amendment was written to protect people from the power of the government to shut down political speech, and lying about combat medals is not political speech.

[SeaHawkFan]

There used to be a time when public shunning and ostracism would be sufficient to humiliate people who do stuff like this.

[muawiyah]

Whatever award or recognition you get in military service it is sacred ~ if not to you, then to me ~ and quite frankly unless they want to devolve the ministration of punishment down to private individuals the Court should act to protect those awards much as the Constitution protects COPYRIGHT.

The lowest Private or Lieutenant should be secure in the knowledge that his awards are meaningful as much as ASCAP should be secure in knowing they can continue to collect fees from the commercial use of music.