Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Cain Proposes Electrified Border Fence
Pravda- NY Times Division ^ | 10/15/11 | Wyatt

Posted on 10/15/2011 4:18:53 PM PDT by VinL

Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain said Saturday that part of his immigration policy would be to build an electrified fence on the country’s border with Mexico that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally...

Mr. Cain added that he also would consider using military troops “with real guns and real bullets” on the border to stop illegal immigration.

The remarks were among the most pointed yet by Mr. Cain about illegal immigration, and they come as he is enjoying a surge in national political polls on the back of his victory in a recent Florida straw poll..

It is not the first time that Mr. Cain has floated the idea of an electrified fence. He has told the story many times of a caller to his former radio show who chastised him for talking about building a border fence, saying that such an idea was impractical.

“It’s going to be 20 feet high. It’s going to have barbed wire on the top. It’s going to be electrified. And there’s going to be a sign on the other side saying, ‘It will kill you — Warning.’” At an earlier rally, on the campus of Tennessee Tech University in Cookeville, Tenn., he added that the sign would be written “in English and in Spanish.”

“This nation has always been a nation with wide open doors,” Mr. Cain said at the second rally. “We want to make it easy for people to come through the front door. And we’re going to shut off the back door so you don’t have to sneak into America.”

(Excerpt) Read more at thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Russia; US: New York
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; bzzzzztt; cain; cainvsunable; electrified; fence; hermancain; immigrantlist; mexico; ohmy; zots; zots4acornprotesters; zots4acornvoters; zots4amnesty; zots4bordercrossers; zots4bushsfriends; zots4coyotes; zots4criminals; zots4drugrunners; zots4futurevoters; zots4illegals; zots4mccainsfriends; zots4obamavoters; zots4perrysfriends; zots4youngsocialists; zots4zetas; zotsf4bordercrossers
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 901-907 next last
To: PSYCHO-FREEP

“But go ahead. Spend another Trillion to build, maintain and enforce several thousand miles of border fence.”

So your answer is open borders. That’s fine, dude. Perry’s the guy.

We simply differ in what we want this country to be for our children and grandchildren.


361 posted on 10/15/2011 6:34:21 PM PDT by BobL (A vote for Perry is a vote for Romney)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 353 | View Replies]

To: BobL

Due process, just compensation. Burden should be high for the Federal government.
And this discussion proves that specific enumeration of rights limits those rights, doesn’t it? God given, inalienable rights.


362 posted on 10/15/2011 6:34:31 PM PDT by hocndoc (WingRight.org Have mustard seed:Will use. Cut spending, cut spending, cut spending, now, now. now!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 263 | View Replies]

To: mylife
Who pays? and Who’s property would you seize to achieve such a dream?

How much property was seized by FedGov™ when the Interstate Highway System was built? Hmmmmm?

363 posted on 10/15/2011 6:34:45 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 356 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat

Sorry, I don’t support amnesty of any kind, never have, never will.

You nativists are one bunch of crazy loons.


364 posted on 10/15/2011 6:34:58 PM PDT by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 355 | View Replies]

To: Reagan Man; Norm Lenhart
Put down the crack pipe or what ever else you might be ingesting.
Join the human race, idiot.


Ronald Reagan would disavow such shameful personal attacks. You are an embarrassment to his good name.

You need to ponder what Norm had to say in his post #339, here I'll save you the bother of having to scroll up:

"A liberal trait is call names, claim their opponents/ideas are nuts/crazy and act like a 5 year old when the facts get inconvenient."
339 posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 9:23:19 PM by Norm Lenhart

365 posted on 10/15/2011 6:35:32 PM PDT by mkjessup (Herman Cain is a God fearin', Jesus-lovin', Constitution-revering PATRIOT. What's not to like?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 337 | View Replies]

To: central_va

Well, we agree...a little bit.

Walls are absolutely non-political. But walls are made to be breached. It happens even in populated areas.

I like Mr. Cain a lot...but electrifying a fence in today’s pc world won’t happen.

And I must ask once again...are you familiar with the terrain of the southern Texas border?


366 posted on 10/15/2011 6:36:26 PM PDT by berdie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 324 | View Replies]

To: mylife

We all pay for our security.

You find one person that is unwilling to sell a small piece of border property for a proper fence and I will show you a person willing to sacrifice the lives of their countryman for selfish reasons.

But the USA controls all borderland. Period. National security overcomes all.


367 posted on 10/15/2011 6:36:38 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (Chief Druid of Trollhenge: Cult of Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 356 | View Replies]

Comment #368 Removed by Moderator

To: mylife
Posse Comitatus - The Act prohibits members of the Army from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.

Securing our borders *is* a Federal right and responsibility. Using US troops against US citizens is against Posse Comitatus. Using them to secure our borders against an invasion is not.

Posse Comitatus does not apply in this situation.

369 posted on 10/15/2011 6:36:59 PM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: mylife

A possible answer is that he wants his opponents to misunderestimate him.


Well, in Practical Yield terms, Cain just drove what little hispanic support he may have had to Perry, and pulled ALL of what little black support Perry may have had from him.

Henry Ford wasn’t the last guy to profit pitting blacks against hispanics.

I’d imagine Perry is just standing back, saying ‘hmmmm’.


370 posted on 10/15/2011 6:37:29 PM PDT by txhurl (Did you want to talk or fish? Or feed the fish?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 293 | View Replies]

To: NYCslicker; mylife

One law.
Dealing with the Fed’s ignoring entire families for over 3 years.


371 posted on 10/15/2011 6:37:57 PM PDT by hocndoc (WingRight.org Have mustard seed:Will use. Cut spending, cut spending, cut spending, now, now. now!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: noprogs

The guy’s just a grump, bitches at everyone, has for years, probably has perpetual hemorrhoids.

The real Reagan Man had a sunny disposition, by way of contrast.


372 posted on 10/15/2011 6:38:20 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: lahargis
Can we send all the illegals to your state and you take care of them?

Can we revise the tax code so that only those that check the “I want to contribute another 5% of my income to support illegals” so that folks like you can support them and those of us who prefer for them to stay in their own Country don't have the financial burden of supporting one that turns into 15 within a generation?

I am tired of being called “heartless”. I am tired of skirting the issues around the edges because of a new generation that prefers political correctness over enforcing the laws.

I am tired of candidate's wives telling me how I should think and calling me ruthless.

I want a man or woman who isn't afraid of political blow back just because they speak with the heart and conviction of a Conservative.

373 posted on 10/15/2011 6:38:21 PM PDT by not2worry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: Reagan Man

I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that it was said ‘tongue in cheek’.

He’s been saying all along that we have to physically secure the border and that there are many different methods that should be employed to handle the different terrains.


374 posted on 10/15/2011 6:38:39 PM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: mkjessup

He still hasn’t answered my question. Nor have any other anti-fence/pro-Perry types. Pretty telling.


375 posted on 10/15/2011 6:38:49 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart (Chief Druid of Trollhenge: Cult of Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 365 | View Replies]

To: Polybius
Don't forget to mention all those treaties that are in place.

Wall of Boots

Editor's Note:  This comes to us from Stacy Swimp's "Contagious Transformation" and is written by Marissa Martinez.

Meet Marissa Martinez, a native of Texas. Marissa got involved with public policy advocacy as a result of her concerns that government was oversteping it’s boundaries and minimizing the individual freedom of American citizens. She believes firmly in immigration reform, strong defense, loyalty to Israel, and schools of choice, among numerous concerns. Marissa, a vocal Tea Party activist, believes that it is time that government is reminded that it is the servant of the people, rather than the people being subservient to government.

As the GOP hopefuls make their rounds, the issue of border security has quickly become a focal point.  The entire GOP field has responded to this matter with a unified voice of “Build the fence” as a way of appeasing conservatives with the issue while never truly understanding the logistics and consequences to building a fence on the Texas border that encompasses 2/3 of the US/MX border.  How often have the candidates said it is the only rational way to provide security on our southern borders, I would venture to say too many times to count.  While I agree our nation’s borders and points of entry must be secured, building a fence will not accomplish the task and serve to lull Americans with a false sense of security and violate US/MX treaty(s) while harming agriculture and remove the only water source for US cities along the Rio Grande.

Some have argued that the Department of Homeland (DHS) security has great authority and can bypass most if not all of the laws that impede the completion of the border fence. To those who hold this idea, pardon my frankness, you are part of the appeased masses that have failed to comprehend the issue in its entirety and have had the candidates pander to that lack of knowledge.  As conservatives, we should pride ourselves in understanding what the issues are and what laws govern them so we may address and resolve them.

DHS does not and will never have greater authority than treaties entered into by the US and a foreign nation.  Due to the complexity of this issue, I am providing links to all treaties, laws, regulations, and Executive Orders that pertain to the subject matter for your review and verification.

 US/MX Border & Treaties

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo signed February 2, 1848 previsions called for Mexico to cede 55% of its territory, Arizona, California, New Mexico, Western Colorado, Nevada, and Utah. For this land, the US paid Mexico 15 million dollars in compensation for war-related damages to Mexican property. Article V of the treaty identifies the new Texas border at the Rio Grande; the US Senate ratified the treaty in March 1848. Border boundaries’ continued and were finally settled in the 1970 Boundary treaty (U.S.-Mex., Nov. 23, 1970, 23 U.S.T. 371)

Along with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the US and Mexico share the following treaties:
1936 Migratory Bird Convention,
 1940 Western Hemisphere Convention,
1944 Water Treaty,
 1983 La Paz Agreement,
1993 North American Agreement on Environmental Cooperation (NAAEC) and;
International Boundary and Water Commission.

As international treaties and protocols, these treaties have a legal standing that supersede many domestic legislation and reinforced by the customary international law – the Vienna Convention on the Law Treaties.

US Domestic Laws

Since 2/3 of the US/Mexico border is in TX, let us look at the largest and most burdensome portion of securing United States southern border and the domestic laws that would affect the project on the Rio Grande alone.

The moment the federal government decides to build anything – bridge, road or in this case a fence; a “higher standard” is set. The first step is an environmental impact assessment study, to discover the positive or negative affects the building project will have on flora, fauna, and wildlife. If a species is on a protected list and found during the study, the construction of the project is diverted from the area, causing additional costs and delays.  The Rio Grande has it’s list of protected species and migratory animals. To add a layer of difficulty, The Rio Grande is classified as a “wetland” a detailed hydrologic and hydrographic study (H&H) would have to be completed.

Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)

Permission from FEMA would also be required and DHS could not go around them because of Executive orders signed by both Republican and Democratic Presidents.  I am sure you are asking yourself, what does FEMA have to do with building a border fence? When an object diverts water flow, spillways, and causes flooding, FEMA steps in to assist the affected party. The building of a fence is done without authorization of FEMA, the matte now becomes a “takings” issue “…the government’s interest that is being furthered by the regulation, the breadth or specificity of the regulation, and the extent of the regulation’s impact on the owner’s property rights and expectations”.  . If the action were repeated over a 2,000-mile border, FEMA’s compensation to the landowners and legal action taken against the Federal Government for depriving or damaging them would be an astronomical cost.  Every state, community, and city is required by law to participate in FEMA, if you are not, the member of that community cannot purchase a home that is FDIC insured.  With the collapse of the housing market, how many middle class American say they have enough cash on hand to buy a home?

If this litany of laws was not long enough, there is also Presidential Executive Orders regarding this matter:

11988 – “…adverse impacts associated with the occupancy and modification of floodplains and to avoid direct or indirect support of floodplain development wherever there is a practicable alternative”

11990 –“…modification of wetlands and to avoid direct or indirect support of new construction in wetlands wherever there is a practicable alternative”

12898 – “…addressing, as appropriate, disproportionately high and adverse human health or environmental effects of its programs, policies, and activities on minority populations and low-income populations in the United States and its territories and possessions” and;

44 CRR part 9 – “…(i) Avoid the destruction or modification of the wetlands;  (ii) Avoid direct or indirect support  of new construction in wetlands;  (iii) Minimize the destruction, loss or degradation of  wetlands; and  (iv) Preserve and enhance the natural  and beneficial values of wetlands .

If your head is spinning from the laws, treaties and regulations and if you still have doubts regarding the feasibility of building a border fence, we still have not addresses the only drinking water for over 2,200,000 Americans who live along the TX/MX border.  Then there is the TX agriculture that could no longer irrigate their crops because of the blocked water source.  With recent droughts, fires and flooding throughout the US, our food supply has dwindled and adding these Texas farmers to lost crops would only exacerbate the matter.  What of the tributaries that flow into the Rio Grande, that water would flood Northern areas of the US and would encounter the same issues with FEMA and adverse affects due to “takings” issue.   This is a manmade disaster waiting to happen, a modern dust bowl that can easily be obverted if we just create a wall of boots on the ground.

When you hear politicians, pundits and friends demand we build a wall on the US/MX border and claim it is the only way to secure the border, please share this knowledge with them.  Be bold when questioning desired leaders/GOP candidates and let them know – We are conservatives, armed with facts; I know these answers, why don’t you?


376 posted on 10/15/2011 6:39:03 PM PDT by CajunConservative ( Leadership. It is defined by action, not position.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 320 | View Replies]

To: BobL
It costs next to nothing to guard the 14 miles of wall south of San Diego.

Really? It cost next to nothing and stops crime dead?

Seems like I read 2 articles this very week about Illegals in So Ca committing crimes.

I lived there for 10 years, If you think Ca has the solution you are smokin some good stuff.

This doesn't appear to cost next to nothing, and that's just a controlled point of entry!

377 posted on 10/15/2011 6:39:11 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 267 | View Replies]

To: VinL; Liz

As a memorial to the failed Perry 2012 Campaign, will President Cain “have a heart” and give in-state tuition to the college age illegal aliens who make it over the new fence?


378 posted on 10/15/2011 6:39:26 PM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: berdie
And I must ask once again...are you familiar with the terrain of the southern Texas border?

We have different visions for the country. Perry's your guy. I get it. I lived in Texas for 9 years and not everyone was for an open border. The Free Republic Perrywinkles are an embarrassment, to real Texans. AMF! Perry is a loser......

379 posted on 10/15/2011 6:39:56 PM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 366 | View Replies]

Comment #380 Removed by Moderator


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 901-907 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson