The new, ugly debate about Mitt Romney's Mormon faith will only push him closer to the nomination

The Telegraph ^ | October 10th, 2011 | Tim Stanley

[Ripliancum]

"...It probably irks Mitt to have to discuss his faith in this way, but the Mormon debate could be of net benefit to his campaign.

...True, there is a small but significant minority who say they would never vote for a Mormon. According to Gallup, it’s around 22 percent of the population. But opposition to Mormonism doesn’t come from conservative Evangelicals or Catholics. On the contrary, Gallup’s polls show that it’s a liberal thing. Only 7 percent of Baptists and Catholics wouldn’t vote for a Mormon, compared with 32 percent of gays and 49 percent of atheists. Amusingly, the figure is also much, much higher among Mormons, at 22 percent. That’s right, 22 percent of Mormons would never vote for a Mormon. Perhaps they know something we don’t."

[Elsie]

You may be on to something!

[reaganaut]

Exactly and those who are trying to scare us with ‘Mitt or Obama’ don’t have a clue of what will come down if Mitt gets the nomination.

Brushing off the problems with Mitt’s Mormonism now, will only sideswipe them if (God forbid) Mitt gets the nomination, which is something we all must fight NOW!

[reaganaut]

Before you can start to convert a Mormon to Christianity (share the good news) you have to EXTRACT them from Mormonism.

Unlike other believers, Mormons are deluded in a completely different way and it is a two part process. First get them to see Mormonism is not ‘true’, rely on facts rather than feelings, then and only then can you share the Good News of Christ with them.

[reaganaut]

The point Elsie was making, is it appears you are doing the same thing with Mormonism as you are with the play. Trusting what other people say rather than digging out the truth for yourself.

Truth about Mormonism...Mormons won’t tell you the whole truth, not at all....been there done that.

www.mormonoutreach.org

www.utlm.org

[dfwgator]

The new, ugly debate about Mitt Romney's Mormon faith will only push him closer to the nomination

His Mormon Faith will get him killed in the General.

[Colofornian]

(I suppose that’s why FR posters like Szonian have moved from Mormon to Ex-Mormon to Christian, eh?)

[miss marmelstein]

No, I was simply talking about a play called The Book of Mormon.

I have no opinion on Mormonism except that I am sick of the gay theatre crowd (I guess you people don’t know you are aligning yourself with them) demonizing them because they don’t accept the whole gay thing.

[reaganaut]

(I guess you people don’t know you are aligning yourself with them

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Actually no I’m not. I used to work in theatre as well, costuming, in California, I know ALL about the ‘gay theatre’ crowd. I also grew up in Palm Springs, CA and I can guarantee I know more gays than you do and I’m sick of it too.

I don’t care if you see the play or not, I probably won’t, but it did appear that you were not going to see the play because it is thought of as ‘anti-Mormon’. In fact, it is rather sympathetic to Mormons based upon things ex-Mormon friends of mine (who have seen it) have said.

We get a lot of people who defend Mormons but don’t know anything about what they really believe or teach and are under the reasonably naive assumption that people don’t lie about their religious beliefs.

[miss marmelstein]

Why do you read into my posts things I never said or thought?

My problem with this show is that it is the product of the South Park people who are lewd and nasty. The show is supposedly about more than mormonism. It takes on catholics (oh, what a bore) and the usual gay liberal shibboleths.

My husband and I are in New York theatre and we work relentlessly with other good people to bring truth and beauty to theatre. I’m not going to waste hard-earned money on seeing a show because it’s anti-Mormon and therefore acceptable to freepers who know nothing about theatre or the gay agenda of the New York theatre world.

Why don’t you all rent a bus and do an evening of The Book of Mormon? And leave me alone!

[Confab]

I don’t know, maybe it’s just the way I was taught, & what the Bible & the Lord teach us, but there’s something about teaching w/ love, not contempt that seems right. That’s what the Mormon’s do. Maybe that’s part of why they convert so many Christians to their faith.

All I know is that your methods would COMPLETELY turn me off to what you’re preaching. There are rarely, if ever, posts by you guys that aren’t absolutely filled w/ anger. That’s all you guys portray. You never seem to portray love at all. Who would want to bring so much anger into their lives? I thank the Lord my church teaches a different way, I’m much happier that way.

Christians in my area have huge inter-faith activities that include the Mormon’s. They are an enormous help & we get along fabulously while accomplishing much in the name of the Lord even though there may be differences.

Short & long of it, if I were looking for a church, I wouldn’t be inclined to look your way. You seem far too interested in bashing other’s beliefs than teaching the benefits of what you believe. What a downer. My prayers are w/ you guys though in hopes that the Lord may soften your hearts.

When the Lord sent his apostles to preach to the heathen & even the Samaritans, those that were wayward, He sent them w/ a message & attitude of love, not billy clubs. Just something to think about.

[Elsie]

The show is supposedly about more than mormonism.

Sigh...

[Elsie]

You seem far too interested in bashing other’s beliefs than teaching the benefits of what you believe.

Sounds like FUN!

Let me try it...

One of the benefits of MY chosen religious affiliation is that I get to be bashed for pointing other religion's misinterpretations and outright re-writing of the bible.

[Confab]

Which Bible? The Catholic Bible, or the other Christian Bible w/ books missing?

Do you get much sunlight? LOL. I pray for you too.

[reaganaut]

but there’s something about teaching w/ love, not contempt that seems right. That’s what the Mormon’s do. Maybe that’s part of why they convert so many Christians to their faith.

- - - -
Actually, they DON’T do that. They lie about their beliefs and twist words and scripture and definitions. Also, they don’t go after believing strong Christians, they go after ‘nominal’ Christians (and particularly Catholics) who don’t know their Bible. I was given specific instructions on how to find nominal Christians who were going through ‘times of transition’ to target for conversion and if I found someone who knew their Bible well, to avoid them or not return.

Also, they lie about their growth, they have even changed the way they count members. By their own admission they are losing members or at zero growth rate (depending on the year and source).

Reaching the LDS is different than reaching other non-Christians. The ‘methods’ you condemn are what get most LDS OUT of Mormonism. It worked with me. I had a Christian bookstore owner who ‘attacked’ me on LDS theology, it made me mad, but it made me think. Also we have had several Mormons on here who have left because of this style of preaching.

I’m not angry, I am simply telling the truth about Mormonism, a truth they don’t want to hear. But go ahead, point out the ‘anger’. It isn’t bashing, it is telling the truth, something you don’t appear interested in. Mormons lie and twist their faith to make ‘the Church’ look good.

Christians in your area are deceived if they accept Mormons as Christians, they are not and they are playing with fire. Mormons don’t like Christians, they are just looking for good PR and potential converts. That is how I was suckered in.

As I said, reaching the LDS is completely different than reaching other non-believers. Been there done that.. Something to think about. When you have spent almost 20 years in counter cult ministry, and escaped a cult, then we can talk about how to best reach them.

BTW, I attend a Calvary Chapel. Ping to other ex-mo’s. You can ask them what ‘method’ worked.

[reaganaut]

I didn’t read anything into it, I simply stated what it appeared from what you said.

I never said you should (or had to see the show). I don’t care if you do or don’t. As I stated, I have no intention of seeing it. If you read my post you would know that.

And why are you so defensive? Overreaction, much?

[Elsie]

yes

[reaganaut]

Heads up, Jesus was quite bold and according to your logic ‘hateful’ to the Pharisees. Do you want Bible verses?

Lovey dovey at the compromise of Truth isn’t love at all.

[Elsie]

Which Bible? The Catholic Bible, or the other Christian Bible w/ books missing?

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See some differences between GOD's Word and the Joseph Smith's 'translation'

 

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Color coding explanation:

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Added stuff...                                                                                                    Changed stuff...                        Rearranged stuff...                                                                    Removed stuff...

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*(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every fifth word that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)

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JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24. Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.     1 aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ccrowned on the right hand of God.   2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.   3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.   4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the asign of thy bcoming, and of the cend of the world, or the destruction of the dwicked, which is the end of the world?   5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;   6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am aChrist—and shall deceive many;   7 Then shall they deliver you up to be aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;   8 And then shall many be aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;   9 And many afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;   10 And because iniquity shall abound, the alove of many shall wax cold;   11 But he that remaineth asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.   12 When you, therefore, shall see the aabomination of bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.   13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the amountains;   14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;   15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;   16 And wo unto them that are with achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;   17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;   18 For then, in those days, shall be great atribulation on the bJews, and upon the inhabitants of cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.   19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.   20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.   21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;   22 For in those days there shall also arise false aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.   23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.   24 Behold, I have told you before;   25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;   26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.   27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the acarcass is, there will the eagles be bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.   28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.   29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.   30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.   31 And again, this aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;   32 And again shall the aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.   33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the asun shall be bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.   34 Verily, I say unto you, this ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.   35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.   36 And, as I said before, after the atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth bmourn; and they shall see the cSon of Man dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;   37 And whoso atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall bcome, and he shall send his cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.   38 Now learn a parable of the afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;   39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;   40 But of that day, and hour, no one aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.   41 But as it was in the days of aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;   42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;   43 And aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.   44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other bleft;   45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;   46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.   47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.   48 Therefore be ye also aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.   49 Who, then, is a afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?   50 Blessed is that aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.   51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord adelayeth his coming,   52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,   53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,   54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and agnashing of teeth.   55 And thus cometh the aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by. The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39  24:1-51            39.  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.    1.  And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.  2.  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.  3.  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?  4.  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.  5.  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  6.  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.  7.  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.  8.  All these are the beginning of sorrows.  9.  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.  10.  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.  11.  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.  12.  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.  13.  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.  14.  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.  15.  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  16.  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:  17.  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:  18.  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.  19.  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!  20.  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:  21.  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.  22.  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.  23.  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.  24.  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.  25.  Behold, I have told you before.  26.  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.  27.  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  28.  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.  29.  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  30.  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  31.  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.  32.  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:  33.  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.  34.  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.  35.  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.  36.  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.  37.  But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  38.  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,  39.  And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  40.  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  41.  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.  42.  Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.  43.  But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.  44.  Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.  45.  Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?  46.  Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.  47.  Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.  48.  But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;  49.  And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;  50.  The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,   51.  And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.         King James Version of the Holy Bible Public domain

 

[Elsie]

Theater...

DRAMA!!!

[Confab]

Was He “hateful” to the Samaritans? Even w/ some of the Pharisees, i.e. Nicodemus, He reproved but afterwards showed love. Where’s even the afterwards w/ you guys?

Enough. May peace be in your hearts.