Major Plane Crash at Reno Air Races Many dead [NTSB Update: 11 Dead; Over 50 Injured]]

16 Sep 2011 | vanity

[PilotDave]

A P-51 crashed into a vip area at the reno air races about 25. Initial reports indicate many deaths.

[leakinInTheBlueSea]

I’m surprised people have not focused more on the picture of the aircraft in a dive... seems to have fairly good detail, and I cannot make out a horizontal stabilizer??? Forget the trim tab... forget the elevator... all I see are some marks on the aft fuselage where it all should be. Combine that with the earlier pics of the trim tab separating, the trim tab missing and this pic, and it could be catastrophic aeroelastic flutter. The NTSB will be looking at the modifications and maintenance records for sure... all very tragic. prayers to all involved.

[Yosemitest]

A friend of mine (2002: Tommy Rose of Hickory, Miss., sport class racer crashed into sagebrush during a race) died in a very similar crash.
He crossed the wake turbulence of a leading aircraft in a turn and the horizontal stabilizer was crumpled from the wingtip vortices of the wake.

Heres a link to this excerpt:

Friday — Mourning ... But the upbeat mood at Stead was shattered Friday afternoon when Tommy Rose, flying a Questair Venture, was killed during a Sport-class heat. Rose's airplane apparently encountered turbulence on the front stretch. The aircraft was seen to porpoise several times and then the Venture lost a portion of the tail. It crashed near the home pylon. In the tradition of racing, the remainder of the races was run, but a moment of silence in Rose's memory was observed on Saturday before the first Sport-class race.

[Yosemitest]

Here's a link everyone might be interested in.

A [Galloping] Ghost Story - How We Almost Made Reno

[xjcsa]

I’m surprised people have not focused more on the picture of the aircraft in a dive... seems to have fairly good detail, and I cannot make out a horizontal stabilizer??? Forget the trim tab... forget the elevator... all I see are some marks on the aft fuselage where it all should be. Combine that with the earlier pics of the trim tab separating, the trim tab missing and this pic, and it could be catastrophic aeroelastic flutter. The NTSB will be looking at the modifications and maintenance records for sure... all very tragic. prayers to all involved.

I think the stabilizer is still on there in that photo; we're just looking at it directly end-on. But I could be wrong.

[DJlaysitup]

Well let’s remember...this would have been tragic wherever it hit and whoever was killed...but...in fact...it hit the VIP section right about at the start finish line. Best seats in the house.

[taildragger]

To all that were their from FR, thank G_d you are safe. RIP Jim and all those that perished. Prayers for those that are injured. The Leeward family is a well known name in the aviation circles and an old friend I lost touch with I think lives on the the "Ranch" in FLA. FWIW, I was at Reno once in the early 90's the last year Tsunami raced, yes it is dangerous, but probably the most thrilling motor-sport event on the planet. I am not sure how the sport recovers from this. I never understood the box seat thing at Reno, I was in the stands and thought that was great. The one thing about those seats is you are real close to the aircraft when the are taxiing out if my memory is correct.

The photo of the missing trim tab, this is not the 1st time a racer has been lost at Reno do to the trim tab possibly fluttering and liberating from the elevator. I believe something similar is what caused the crash of Miss Ashley II in 1997.

[DJlaysitup]

In my personal opinion, getting blown to bits as a spectator at an airshow/race is akin to being struck by lightning. The odds are pretty good for the spectators. I see no reason to actually stop this sort of event. I’ve been to a few and thoroughly enjoyed them.

[Moose4]

Good catch on the missing trim tab. Would that cause enough control force that he couldn’t overcome it, at those speeds?

}:-)4

[mad_as_he$$]

EMB, actually you might be surprised how little aircraft fly at the crowd at the Air Races. The last turn is well down course and from what I can see in the videos the Ghost actually broke to the right and at the crowd after the home turn was completed. The fact that the crash happened probably almost a third of a mile from the last pylon indicates to me that he made the corner and then the tab left the aircraft. Just a stroke of very bad timing and the last second move to pull the nose up kept it out of the crowd. That also indicates to me that the pilot was still awake and had some control. That move also caused the debris to scatter away from the crowd. No fireball and overall this got way better than it could of been. Initial reports here in town were that there were 200 dead — which is easy to see. Thank God the fuel didn't go off.

http://www.rgj.com/

[tanknetter]

In the final picture vertical before impact the rear tail wheel is out and with little exhaust he pulled the power back.

In that ("dive") picture, why isn't the pilots head/helmet visible? Galloping Ghost was not a standard P-51D, had been modified in many ways, including a revised and much smaller canopy. In that second picture it looks like the pilot simply isn't inside the aircraft.

[mad_as_he$$]

I think you are right. There were hundreds looking for video on youtube AT the event because they did not see the actual impact. One dumb comment may have started this. I can tell you that there were several very concerned individuals - of some note. The fact that the Governor came ASAP and then the presser was delayed about an hour fed it even more.

[Elsie]

The only wacko moderators are those in the Religion Forum because one would have to be certifiably insane to take on that responsibility. ;-)

Sadly; it's folks like me that MAKE them WACKY!!

[Elsie]

Rumor that famous politician was one of those killed.

[Elsie]

Our nation has just seen its last air race.

Oh?

Time will tell.

We are still going to have concerts at the State Fair in Indiana...

[Elsie]

Odd, isn't it, how there is more interest in the safety of famous people than for the ordinary Americans who died or are suffering tonight.

About 3,000 potential Americans died today: from CHOICE.

[I cannot think of a name]

The pictures they are showing on the news of the missing trim tab also appear to show the elevators split from each other. That would probably be indicative of a massive flutter event. The fact the the tail wheel is extended also makes me think some kind of really violent activity went on in the tail section. Unfortunately, at the highest speeds those guys are probably right at the limits of flutter margin. Some kind of external energizing event (crossing somebody's wake at the wrong angle, ground gust, etc) could be all it took to set it off.

[mad_as_he$$]

The weather was good at the time of the crash. It had been cloudy in the am and humidity was high for here. One witness that called on local talk radio thought he got clipped by another plane, but there is no collision damage in some very clear pics that are out this am. Just the trim tab gone or pushed all the way down.

[I cannot think of a name]

There’s no need for airplanes to touch to cause this kind of event - just some kind of “energizing” event that shakes the plane at the wrong time, in the wrong way, at the highest speeds. Modern aircraft are tested to be flutter free by installing a device called a shaker in the tail, and shaking the heck out of the aircraft at the highest speeds. Unfortunately World War II vintage aircraft were tested by “control stick raps” which will not reveal every situation under which flutter can occur. And of course, this was a heavily modified aircraft flying in close proximity to other heavily modified aircraft. What makes air racing exciting is also what makes it dangerous.

[mad_as_he$$]

In the video from the angle looking to the right of the operator it is clear the aircraft is shaking. Several witnesses reported the engine was hunting. I think that was just propeller harmonics has the roll commenced. It is clear it went into the asphalt with the engine running either full out or close to it.

[dynoman]

That wisp of vapor could be from the boil off cooling systems on the plane.

There’s an outline on boil off cooling systems on page 10 here;

http://www.enginehistory.org/Convention/2005/Presentations/LawPete/Cooling.pdf

A plane like Galloping Ghost might have had as much water on board as fuel.