Great police response to 'open carry' activist

policeone.com ^ | July 25, 2011 | Doug Wyllie

[brent13a]

In California, where I live and work, there has been an increasing movement among a segment of legally-armed citizens to carry unloaded sidearms in plain view. This trend is happening elsewhere, but there seems to just be more “activity” around the movement here in the Golden State perhaps because it seems so much more difficult to get a CCW here than in most other states.

In my humble estimation, the video of Officer Matthew Lyons of the Oceanside (Calif.) PD could be a training video for any agency that has to deal with “open carry citizens.” In fact, the video of video below in which Officer Lyons encounters one of those individuals stands in stark contrast to another we posted to PoliceOne last week.

There has been quite a lot of traffic to the video of Canton (Ohio) Patrolman Harless not just here on PoliceOne, but all over the Internet — and his less-than-stellar response to a legally-armed citizen in his sector. I’m told that Harless has been — or soon will be — relieved of his badge. Well, regardless of the outcome of that particular case, there are myriad examples out there of officers encountering an open-carry citizen, and I point to this one with Officer Lyons as a compelling example of “doing it the right way.”

Officer Lyons has been hailed by a handful of bloggers, including one for CBS News which bears repeating here:

“Officer Matt Lyons with the Oceanside Police Department definitely deserves a shout out for this almost 3-minute encounter. Officer Lyons, we salute you, not only for your incredible professionalism, sense of humor, and great on camera demeanor, but also your dedicated 22 years of service in the United States Marine Corps.”

[brent13a]

Are they allowed to carry a loaded magazine elsewhere on their body?

In Illinois you can technically open carry an unloaded handgun while having the ammunition separate from the magazine and those items elsewhere on your person.

The major problem being that if you had to use the gun, and once you loaded it, you would be breaking the law (a major felony). Then after you broke that law and if you used the gun there isn't a court in Illinois that would find for your defense(you would be charged with homicide).

So while open-carrying proves a certain point, for personal safety and well-being it's really really stupid.

Do I agree with how the law works? NO. Do I have to enforce it? YES.

[RowdyFFC]

Well, the first hint clue about the Norway shooter would be that he’s wearing a police uniform. A policemen doesn’t refuse to identify himself and is required by law to show his ID, even to and especially to other policemen. The first thing an officer does is flash his badge and ID.

Even my son who’s fireman with CCW knows when he’s stopped, the first thing he does is flash his badge. It cuts right through all the hassle and BS.

Also notice that the young man in this video was calm, he answered in one-sentence, he didn’t try to BS the officers, and he was video-taping for his protection, his gun was unloaded and he made no protective responses other than the video. He was also trained not to touch the weapon with the police standing there.

Even the Norge sociopath would’ve been displaying agitation, rapid eye movement, a defensive hand twitch, and would’ve been trying to BS the cops and most likely would’ve had a loaded weapon.

[MrB]

Governments, by their inherent nature, are “oppressive” when they at any time exceed the bounds of protecting unalienable rights.
And any agent thereof is inherently a “toady”, or an enforcer, of that oppression.

[teeman8r]

he had a magazine that the officer confiscated too.

what is the point of the 2nd amendment. to protect against an oppressive government. the citizen was being oppressed... though just a little.

when the officer confiscated the weapon, he violated the man’s constitutional right to bear arms. ‘shall not be infringed’

teeman

[teeman8r]

you are correct. see my posts on this for my corroboration.

[clamper1797]

though he is being hailed as the next best american hero, officer lyon, badge 1093, is still a toadie of oppressive government.

That is exactly right. Had this happened in Arizona Officer Lyon would be looking for a new job ... and that would not have been an unloaded weapon. An unloaded gun is a club nothing more

[ZX12R]

officer lyon, badge 1093, is still a toadie of oppressive government.

He he...I like it. Jack Booted Toadies!

[brent13a]

What possible crime? Do you know something we don’t?

Do you not read? There was a report by someone to the police of someone breaching the peace. In Illinois that is called Disorderly Conduct, in other states it's just called a Breach of Peace. So the officer was investigating whether or not a misdemeanor crime was being committed.

Next.

How does the police officer know if the gun is truly unloaded, as required by law? If some idiot "patriot" is out trying to prove his point but had a loaded gun then the "patriot" wouldn't be proving any point except he's an idiot by breaking the law.

I don't demand that patriots leave the country I just demand idiots leave the country. True 'patriots' know how to prove their points and protest while staying within and utilizing the system. Idiots go outside the system and usually get themselves and others hurt.

[SUSSA]

There should be more cops like Officer Lyons. I hope the video goes viral.

[mvpel]

Most states have Disorderly Conduct statutes, while in my state it is a misdemeanor, however if we get a call about someone causing alarm and possibly provoking a breach of the peace it has to be investigated. Just like a report of any other crime has to be investigated.

In some neighborhoods, a black man walking down the street and minding his own business would cause alarm and possibly provoke a breach of the peace. Would the officer still be obligated to confront that individual?

"Florida v. J.L., 529 U.S. 266 (2000), held that a police officer may not legally stop and frisk anyone based solely on an anonymous tip that simply described that person's location and what he or she might look like but that did not furnish information as to any illegal conduct that the person might be planning."

[Hot Tabasco]

I fail to understand the benefit of carrying a weapon without ammunition.

California laws allow open carry of unloaded handguns. Laws are what they are and many of them don't make any sense........

Regarding this video, the officer was a true professional and deserves praise.

The intent of the guy with the gun is pretty obvious and I'm sure he's disappointed with the polite treatment he received from the LEO. It's one thing to exercise your right to open carry but to do so in order to go trolling for a police encounter does not help the cause.

[LachlanMinnesota]

Is it the same in California, does anyone know?

This kind of law is so obviously flying in the face of the second amendment, why has it not been challenged? Or has it?

[brent13a]

What possible crime?

Next

By requesting the "Patriot's" name Officer Lyons could have then checked to see if the "Patriot" was legal to even possess a firearm. Maybe this "Patriot" was a felon.

If this interaction had happened and then later it was revealed the "Patriot" had been a felon and/or maybe done something else with the gun then everyone would be flaming the police for not investigating further.

If the police officer hadn't tried to get the "Patriot's" name and then later it was found out that someone fitting the "Patriot's" description had broken the law with the firearm then it would fall back on the police yet again for not doing their job.

There is a lot more that goes into an encounter with a person than just police driving around looking to violate people's rights. I know you don't want to hear that but it's true. If we don't follow through with an investigation then the it becomes our liability.

[ZX12R]

I don't demand that patriots leave the country...

Thank goodness! Now shut up, Toadie!

[Hot Tabasco]

was blatantly obvious from the video that the person was doing his best to be an a$$hole to get or force a rise out of the officer.

Yep, he was trolling for an encounter.........No ID (who walks around without their wallet) wouldn't give his name, but did have a video camera handy.

[Hot Tabasco]

Are they allowed to carry a loaded magazine elsewhere on their body?

yes, just not in the handgun.

[Rebelbase]

I bet officer Lyons abhors dog shooters.

[brent13a]

In some neighborhoods, a black man walking down the street and minding his own business would cause alarm and possibly provoke a breach of the peace. Would the officer still be obligated to confront that individual?

Please spare me. Where? 1940's Pleasantville?

Supreme Court: Terry v. Ohio

[Hot Tabasco]

when the officer confiscated the weapon,

No he didn't, he asked the activist for it, the activist voluntarily turned it over to him, the officer performed a safety inspection to insure there was no shell in the chamber then returned it to the citizen.

[wagglebee]

there has been an increasing movement among a segment of legally-armed citizens to carry unloaded sidearms in plain view.

This makes no sense whatsoever.