Posted on 06/29/2011 8:15:42 AM PDT by No Brainer
I was a strong opponent of same-sex marriage. Fourteen years ago, Andrew Sullivan and I forcefully debated the issue at length online (at a time when online debate was a brand new thing).
Yet I find myself strangely untroubled by New York state's vote to authorize same-sex marriage -- a vote that probably signals that most of "blue" states will follow within the next 10 years.
I don't think I'm alone in my reaction either. Most conservatives have reacted with calm -- if not outright approval -- to New York's dramatic decision.
Why?
The short answer is that the case against same-sex marriage has been tested against reality. The case has not passed its test....
If people like me had been right, we should have seen the American family become radically more unstable over the subsequent decade and a half.
Instead -- while American family stability has continued to deteriorate -- it has deteriorated much more slowly than it did in the 1970s and 1980s before same-sex marriage was ever seriously thought of.
By the numbers, in fact, the 2000s were the least bad decade for American family stability since the fabled 1950s. And when you take a closer look at the American family, the facts have become even tougher for the anti-gay marriage position.
Middle-class families have become somewhat more stable than they used to be. For example: College-educated women who got married in the 1990s were much less likely to get divorced than equally educated women who got married in the 1970s.
What's new and different in the past 20 years is the collapse of the Hispanic immigrant family....
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
David Frum was just a liberal who had not yet admitted his rejection of the moral values and the view of mankind known by four hundred years of American civilization.
Frum has no anchor and will be tossed to and fro by every wind of leftist doctrine.
His view point on any matter sheds no light on the matter, it only sheds light on the lack of light in David Frum's heart.
False premise, I never heard the American family would deteriorate from gay marriage, which btw we didn’t have so what is he talking about?
No one can analyze the real issues of gay marriage because soon it will be illegal to question gay marriage, adoption, sex, etc.
Whatever is driving this negative trend, it seems more than implausible to connect it to same-sex marriage. How would it even work that a 15-year-old girl in Van Nuys, California, becomes more likely to have a baby because two men in Des Moines, Iowa, can marry?
Comment from the clueless David Frum and his monumental intellect. He is considered a thinker in conservative circles? Yikes!
My mother's favorite saying of late is, "You can't fix stupid."
The individual in question would cut-off his hand if Frum said that it was a good idea.
Frum says it’s not so bad - if you ignore all the bad stuff.
(Woe until him who calls good, evil and evil, good! This is our enemy)
So, you know David Frum...? :)
Kinda like how they hijacked the rainbow. That’s always bothered me.
I think the avenue of same sex marriage will be the tool used to neuter the Christian church in this country and silence them. For that reason alone, aside from the impact on children and values, traditional marriage should not be devalued by recognizing marriage in any other form but one man and one woman.
Welcome to FR!
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
Good one!
I couldn’t pass that up. It fits him (Frum)to a ‘T’.
I have a case in my own family - an immediate family member - who was successful, happy, married, kids - the whole thing.
About 5 years ago he left the wife and kids. Next thing we know he’s in a “committed” gay relationship. Flash forward another few years and he’s a walking skeleton due to what seems to be an out of control meth habit. (yeah - I know - out of control and meth habit are redundant). Needless to say the “committed” gay relationship is no more.
Can you draw any conclusions from this? I guess association is not causality but on the other hand - all was pretty much fine until one fine day he decided to take a walk on the wild side. Personally, I think there’s a connection. But then, that’s just me.
During the argument for “gay marriage” in NY, I found myself swayed for a moment by the soft cooing of its well-dressed politicians and public supporters in the media, declaring all they wanted was “equality” and “tolerance.” It was very disarming, and when simplified to such a level, I found myself questioning my opposition to “gay marriage.”
Then, a short 24 hours after Cuomo signed the bill, I saw the videos, as did everyone else, of gay men wearing only g-strings and cowboy boots, simulating sexual contact, and of gay women stripped to their underwear, all parading publicly through the streets of NY “celebrating.”
I felt foolish, and angry - It took only a short 24 hours for their intellectual promises of virtue to show themselves as the ugly reality of disgusting public license. All those interviewed on the streets still used the same cliches about “tolerance” and “equality,” but coming from them it sounded like mocking - as though I had bought a lemon of a used car, and now the salesmen were laughing about the words they had used to sell it to me.
David Frum is a liberal POS! You need to add a “Barf” or “Hurl Alert” next to the spewage he passes off as intelligent political discourse. Real conservatives are not taken in by the lies of Frum.
I have no such propensity for sympathetic tolerance of homosexuality. My beliefs are based on Biblical doctrine. That doesn’t mean I want to inject my beliefs in their bedroom. It simply means I find it blasphemy in the face of God, and will be dealt with by Him. Yet I will fight tooth and nail any incursion into the sanctity of marriage as an institution.
If they want to act their perversions, let them do so in darkness where it belongs. I see no reason why it should be sanctioned by state.
David Frum: Ecce Homo
Don't know. I don't consider him one and that's good enough for me.
No, this is a good case against bigotry like yours, because you know that by “illegal immigration,” you mean Hispanics, even though they are by no means all illegals, and there are huge numbers of Asian and Muslim, particularly African Muslim, illegals who are much better at hiding out and much more destructive in the long run.
Having somebody come in illegally to pick your crops is simply because Obama has reduced the legal quota for Latin Americans (in favor of people from Africa and Islamic countries) and because we don’t have a short-term worker program.
The problem is that the rejection of Hispanics (completely LEGAL ones) by people like you and many on this forum has left them vulnerable to the Dem Party and to the attacks of Planned Parenthood, which have done everything possible to undermine the good values many of them arrived with. While a lot of them were from lower income families who certainly weren’t the most exemplary in living these values, they all knew how they should live, and this is what PP has undermined. (PP has also had many campaigns, particularly on the subways in New York, to make homosexuality acceptable to Latin Americans.)
This is much to our detriment, btw. European-descended Americans are reproducing well below replacement level. I suggest that we start trying to find allies among our immigrants...hint, Latin Americans and Indians (from India) and some Asians are those who most share our culture. Latin Americans are from a Christian culture, or and the others are from cultures heavily influenced by Western Greco-Roman culture or with traditions that adapt well to it.
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