Posted on 05/31/2011 6:29:14 AM PDT by marktwain
New Mexico Supreme CourtPolice officers in New Mexico can take guns away from drivers who pose no threat. The state supreme court ruled on May 20 that "officer safety" is more important than any constitutional rights a gun-owning motorist might have. The ruling was handed down in deciding the fate of Gregory Ketelson who was a passenger in a vehicle pulled over on November 13, 2008.
During the stop, Hobbs Police Officer Miroslava Bleau saw a 9mm handgun on the back seat floorboard. Ketelson and the driver of the car were ordered out and away from the car while Officer Shane Blevins grabbed the gun. The officers later learned that Ketelson, as a convicted felon, could not legally possess a firearm. The court, however, only considered whether the officers acted properly in taking the gun before they had any reason to suspect Ketelson, who was entirely cooperative during the encounter, of committing a crime.
Ketelson and the National Rifle Association argued that even a brief seizure of a firearm without cause violates fundamental, constitutionally protected rights. Ketelson also argued the gun could not have been taken without a search warrant, consent or exigent circumstances. A district court and the court of appeals agreed with this reasoning. State prosecutors countered that anyone with a gun ought to be considered "armed and dangerous" and thus the gun could be seized at any time. The high court agreed with this line of reasoning.
"Neither the defendant nor the driver was restrained, and thus the risk that one of them would access the firearm was especially potent," Justice Petra Jimenez Maes wrote for the court. "Under such circumstances, Officer Blevins could constitutionally remove the firearm from the vehicle because he possessed a reasonable belief based on specific and articulable facts which warranted him in believing that defendant was armed and thus posed a serious and present danger to his safety."
Because a gun would only taken for the duration of the traffic stop, the court decided such seizures were reasonable.
"The retrieval of the gun from the vehicle during the limited context of the traffic stop was at most a minimal interference with the suspect's possessory interest," Maes wrote. "Our decision in this case, which addresses a temporary separation of a firearm from the occupants of a car during the duration of a traffic stop, does not depend on any requirement of particularized suspicion that an occupant is inclined to use the firearm improperly."
The decision overturned statements made in a previous ruling, New Mexico v. Garcia.
"It would be anomalous to treat the mere presence of a firearm in an automobile as supporting a reasonable suspicion that the occupants are inclined to harm an officer in the course of a routine traffic stop," the court held in 2005.
A copy of the decision is available in a 140k PDF file at the source link below.
Source: PDF File New Mexico v. Ketelson (Supreme Court of New Mexico, 5/20/2011)
There such things as common sense. You have the right to carry a gun and protect yourself, but it does not include carrying it while a police is searching your car. You should be questioning why the police should be allowed to search your car in the first place, but not whether they could hold onto your gun while searching
Well I don't know about that. North Carolina is an open carry state, which means unless you have a concealed carry permit, the weapon must be in plain sight.
I do sympathize with the police in this case, and cannot blame them for feeling apprehensive. After all they only took position of the weapon temporarily, until they knew there was no threat.
What is being designed is a deep division between LEOs and the people. It is the early staging to accomplish the later employment to confiscate and overwhelm citizenry. The current LEO midset must be manipulated to reach an ‘us or them’ mentality which can then be employed to have teams work through neighborhoods ‘pacifying the citizenry’. We The People just aren’t supposed to catch on yet ...
In NC, if you do not have a CCW permit, you must carry your firearm in plain sight while traveling in a vehicle (unless it is secured completely out of reach from the driver or passengers). SC is completely different...even without a CCW, you must have the firearm out of sight. NC doesn't want the police to be surprised, while SC doesn't want the public to be surprised. But I agree, a firearm just laying on the floorboard unsecured is bad news.
It is not a problem here (yet) they have about 3 or 4 cars and cover all ethnic groups I guess to CTA.
Idaho has your CCW permit flagged on your driver’s license. The
dispatcher will inform the officer in the field when the check is
called in against the license. I think CA has the same info, but it has
been 10 since my wife was dispatching for the sheriff in San Diego.
No one ever seems to mention the adage...’better to be tried by 12, than carried by six’...when it comes to LEOs and people with weapons.
If you look it up, police work is actually way down the list of fatalities on the job.
Driving a truck is more dangerous.
The one that tops that is constructions workers, but cops think they are more special.
Because there is nothing proportionate between the armed and the unarmed; and it is not reasonable that he who is armed should yield obedience willingly to him who is unarmed, or that the unarmed man should be secure among armed servants." The Prince by Nicolo Machiavelli, written in 1505, published in 1515
Unbelievable.
Even here in Colorado the cops may disarm a person for the duration of the stop. May. They usually don’t. I know a few cops here and one said that they take other precautions to avoid getting shot in the first place and taking one gun doesn’t mean there isn’t a second. It is also a hassle and can lead to other issues, such as do they unload it, make you unload it which can be unsafe, etc. If they truly feel a firearm is present and presents a danger they simply have the person exit the vehicle and leave the gun behind. If the person or persons appears dangerous they get backup and cuff the person(s). It is all a simple matter of common sense.
This couldn’t help but remind me of when harmonica virtuoso and Hohner “Featured Artist” John Popper of Blues Traveler was pulled over in his Mercedes SUV, when clocked at 111mph in Washington State.
When police searched the car with a police dog, they found four rifles, nine handguns, brass knuckles and a switchblade knife in a secret compartment.
They also found a Taser, night vision goggles and a small amount of marijuana. The vehicle was also equipped with flashing emergency headlights, a siren and a public address system.
And all of it, excepting the marijuana, brass knuckles and switchblade, was legal.
John Popper is a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment. He sometimes appears on stage with a sidearm.
“We have the right to ensure our employers are helpless any time our job requires us to interact with them. Our safety is important. Their safety, as our employers, not so much.” — The State
Since the laws are different in every state, I guess I jumped the gun, so to speak. If you have open carry in your state, could you not have it holstered in plain sight?
It just doesn’t seem safe to me to have an unsecured gun on the floorboard....
Cannot not be loaded are have ammo in reach, in your car, but where I live cops do not pay any attention to that, but it can be loaded if you have a carry permit.
That makes perfect sense.
All the states are different and have exceptions, in GA you could carry if you are in business and are required to carry large sums of cash. I carried a loaded cobra with rather large mags down there for years. The 357 I left in the brief case.
All the states are different and have exceptions, in GA you could carry if you are in business and are required to carry large sums of cash. I carried a loaded cobra with rather large mags down there for years. The 357 I left in the brief case.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.