Posted on 05/12/2011 10:05:22 AM PDT by massmike
Delaware has joined New Jersey in granting marriage-like rights to same-sex couples joined by civil unions.
The law, which will take effect next Jan. 1, stops short of conferring full marriage rights, as has been done by five states and Washington, D.C.
Gov. Jack Markell signed the legislation on Wednesday at Wilmington’s Queen Theater, as hundreds of supporters toasted the occasion with champagne.
(Excerpt) Read more at bostonherald.com ...
“What about children of a widow who marries a new husband? How does he get to adopt her children if he is as good as a stranger to her?”
How is he a stranger to her? Because the government says so?
“What ties people together in a society if there are no recognized ties? Who enforces contracts?”
Who is your highest authority, the Government or your God? My thoughts on the issue have evolved over time and now I have to say that I agree with a lot of what Alan Dershowitz wrote in this piece;
http://www.rossde.com/editorials/Dershowitz_marriage.html
He goes more into detail than I do, and he even leaves the door open for those who are straight, religious or conservative but for some reason feel the need to have the state give them permission to marry.
If I may, I would also add a number of binding contracts by which one can assign ownership or responsibility, completely regardless of marital status.
1) Advanced Healthcare Directive
2) Will and Testament
3) Birth Certificate (Who is the parent as recorded on that)
If I may, I would also add a number of binding contracts by which one can assign ownership or responsibility, completely regardless of marital status.
1) Advanced Healthcare Directive
2) Will and Testament
3) Birth Certificate (Who is the parent as recorded on that)
Although I do feel that general contracts are a good idea for various relationships.
Again. Who enforces contracts?
Legal contracts would be enforced by the State, but in the situation which I describe (Big Daddy Government out of marriage) marriage would not necessarily BE a legal contract. You COULD have one if you felt the need to have your state grant you permission to marry, but marriage is largely a sacrament as is baptism.....I don’t see the state getting involved in baptism.
So, in a court of law, can the state now compel you to testify against your spouse?
“So, in a court of law, can the state now compel you to testify against your spouse?”
Depends. Did you get the states permission to wed? Or did you really live dangerously, leave big brother out of it and have an ecumenical ceremony that actually mean’t something to you and your spouse?
That's a non-answer. Again, slower: can ... the ... state ... compel ... court ... testimony ... against ... a ... spouse?
So, when a husband just wants to abandon his non-working "wife" and family, he is perfectly free to legally to do so with no obligations?
Good grief. I am REALLY trying not to insult you. I’ve watched you on FR for a while and agree with most of what you have to say so I am going to try even harder (maybe having a stroke in the process) to do my best to not devolve this into an insult contest. Here goes nothing;
From the link that I sent you that you clearly have not followed; “The solution is to unlink the religious institution of marriage — as distinguished from the secular institution of civil union — from the state. Under this proposal, ANY couple could register for CIVIL UNION, recognized by the state, with all its rights and responsibilities.”
IOW, if you and your spouse went to big brother in order to get the government recognized “civil union” then no, your spouse could NOT be forced to testify against you in a court of law.
Basically right now we have a system that says that you can get married in a courthouse w/o church involvement, but you just try finding a cleric that will marry you w/o state permission. I want to see that situation done away with.
We have people in this nation shacking up and making babies right and left. When mommy and daddy break up, does the government make the non-custodial spouse pay support or not?
State sanctioned marriage is not required for the state to protect the children of these unions.
“...this is the ONE (and the most personal one) that my fellow conservatives want the most government influence. It’s disturbing.”
I agree. It isn’t a very popular opinion in these parts.
Relying on the state to define and protect marriage, at least in modern times has subverted the role of faith, and has led many to accept impossibilities like “gay marriage” simply because the intitution is now viewed by many to be just another gov’t contract that can be broken and resumed as long as the state gives its OK.
But the bottom line is that it isn’t going to change, it provides the state too much power over the culture. Statists and homosexualists wouldn’t be able to punish folks if they disagreed with their ever evolving definition of marriage, which is coming soon, if not already here in some areas, at least in my opinion.
The good news is that some faiths are never going to accept it, no matter what the punishment, and that’s all that really matters.
Freegards
Thank you, you made the point better than I could.
Whew! Finally!!! I suspected that you were getting at this, but for some reason didn't want to express it as, "government-recognized civil union for all, but no recognized marriage."
Only now you have to explain why it is not okay for the government to be in the "marriage business" but is perfectly alright, for some reason, to be in the "civil union business."
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Even in CA 65% of parents recently said they did not want "gay is good" instruction in public schools. Surrendering to same sex "marriage" is a death knell for human civilization. Demographics are not destiny. More and more young people are becoming pro-life - abortion is becoming less and less accepted as normal, homosexuality is the next one to fall. Anyone pushing same sex "marriage" has moral blinders on. And historical blinders, as well. Homosexuality is a mental illness, huge character flaw, and same sex acts are unnatural, unhealthy and immoral. Homosexuals have much higher rates of child molestation, alcoholism, drug use, violent crime, "partner" abuse and all manner of STD illnesses. Pretending it is just a normal variant of human behavior is nothing but wilfull propaganda.
“Only now you have to explain why it is not okay for the government to be in the “marriage business” but is perfectly alright, for some reason, to be in the “civil union business.”
Easy, marriage is a religious sacrament, civil unions are secular.
if we got the message out about the homosexual agenda, if we showed them on their sick parades with a caption saying is this your sex life private? or showed how their agenda is being pushed into the schools then it would wake more of these idiots up who say “I know one and they are nice” what utter crap just because one knows one or they are used as a fashion accessory in places like NY City does not mean you have to be blind or ignorant.
keep up the good work and thank you for the pings
ONce again, the white trash crowd scores another point.
No, gay marriage is the line in the sand for me. The moment it is forced onto the entirity of the country is the moment the country becomes unsalvageable, and no longer worth preserving. I’d happily see the country break apart and burn in flames first.
You seem to think homosexuals are something that invade from the outside. Like, we close our borders, and they can’t come in. Sorry, FRiend, that’s not how it works. Homosexuals are our brothers, sons, daughters, and friends. We can try to reach them, try to turn them from sin, but they will never be apart from us.
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