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Nouriel Roubini On The One Big Reason To Be OPTIMISTIC About The National Debt
Business Insider ^ | 04/20/2011 | Joe Weisenthal

Posted on 04/20/2011 12:00:14 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

This is odd. A rare note ot sorta-optimism from Nouriel Roubini (AKA Dr. Doom) regarding the US debt situation.

In a note this morning that he put with fellow analyst Arnab Das, he writes:

"The United States has the most manageable fiscal issues of any major advanced economy because federal, state and local revenues as a share of GDP are very low, for cyclical and other reasons. Therefore, fiscal balance can be restored by fiscal adjustment without major economic difficulty in the near term."

In other words, US revenue and spending can be brought closer into line via raising more revenue (as a share of GDP) and so in reality this means raising taxes.

Obviously though the GOP is totally anathema to the idea of tax increases as a debt solution.

But back to Roubini's point, this chart -- via a recent Jeff Gundlach presentation -- demonstrates nicely that tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is what's really fallen off a cliff lately.

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: drdoom; nationaldebt; nourielroubini

1 posted on 04/20/2011 12:00:19 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

So we hear from another “expert” who might have been right once and the media declares him infallible.


2 posted on 04/20/2011 12:07:06 PM PDT by arrogantsob
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To: SeekAndFind

Federal receipt % and taxation levels are so not the same thing.

US GDP has a huge component of Government spending. The spending isn’t productive, and shouldn’t be in GDP, but there it is.

If the Government injects sackfuls of dollar-heroin into Goldman Sachs’ wives’ offshore accounts etc - which probably counts as “GDP” - then the tax receipt % will obviously be lower.


3 posted on 04/20/2011 12:07:41 PM PDT by agere_contra (As often as I look upon the cross, so often will I forgive with all my heart.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Roubini has always struck me as a socialist.


4 posted on 04/20/2011 12:19:28 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: SeekAndFind
Obviously though the GOP is totally anathema to the idea of tax increases as a debt solution

That's your imaginary GOP, right?

5 posted on 04/20/2011 12:21:36 PM PDT by Jim Noble (The Constitution is overthrown. The Revolution is betrayed.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Dr. Roubini is correct: we do have a tax revenue problem... When unemployment soars to 10% and the country sinks into a huge recession/near depression as it did in 2009. We also have a growth problem... next week we’ll probably find that the GDP slowed to under 2% in 1-Q-2011.

So buying into the Dem/Progressive logic that we can repair the revenue/receipts by raising tax rates is crazy — it doesn’t happen. The last time rates were raised (1993), growth once again slowed... Yes, revenues went up — we were recovering from from the minor recession late in GHWB’s term when Bill Clinton pushed through his retroactive increase in tax rates (which his wife beat by taking her Rose Law Firm benefits early to keep them out of the 1993 tax year — but growth slowed and was anemic for a recovery year.

If Federal expenditures were pulled back and constrained to the 20.6% of GDP that Senator Coburn is advocating as a structural spending restraint target, we could get our revenues and expenditures back into relative balance.


6 posted on 04/20/2011 12:25:55 PM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds ("The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher)
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m surprised he does not specify that revenue grows as the economy, and personal wealth, grow

increased taxation just bleeds the economy


7 posted on 04/20/2011 12:29:16 PM PDT by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: PetroniusMaximus

he worked in the Clinton White House, for one thing


8 posted on 04/20/2011 12:29:29 PM PDT by babble-on
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To: SeekAndFind

that chart is meaningless

what is GDP?

would you rather have 50% of the 1929 GDP or 10% of the 2007 GDP?


9 posted on 04/20/2011 12:37:53 PM PDT by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: SeekAndFind

Hauser’s Law - government’s revenue historical level @ 20%. There’s no way on earth they’ll get more.
Obama’s goal is 25%. Rude awakening coming.


10 posted on 04/20/2011 12:48:09 PM PDT by griswold3 (Character is destiny)
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To: SeekAndFind
"In other words, US revenue and spending can be brought closer into line via raising more revenue (as a share of GDP) and so in reality this means raising taxes."

LOL! Go ahead! Stop local spending, and become more self-sufficient! Move to a locale with fewer regulations and taxes.

Other recent articles about Roubini show that he's a surprise cheerleader for the debt regime.


11 posted on 04/20/2011 1:06:50 PM PDT by familyop ("Don't worry, they'll row for a month before they figure out I'm fakin' it." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: griswold3

If socialists could ever be logical about this, they would realize that there is a taxation rate where revenue is optimized. If the taxation rate is lower than this optimal point, they won’t have as much money available to fund their desired programs. Less obviously to them, if the taxation rate is higher than this optimal point, they still won’t have as much money available to fund their desired programs. How can they not realize this? I suspect that some of them do know this, but it doesn’t bother them that their policies will lower the standard of living for most Americans, and raise it for only a very few.


12 posted on 04/20/2011 1:13:15 PM PDT by Texan Tory
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To: silverleaf

Even more to the point, if you look at the graph, there’s a dip (which lags the years as one might expect) from the early 2000s recession, then it gets back up to what looks about an average value for receipts as a percentage of GDP, then it tanks again from the next recession.

Anyone would have a hard time convincing me that tax cuts had much of anything to do with it (well other than maybe suppressing the high rate from the late Clinton dot com bubble years).


13 posted on 04/20/2011 1:27:47 PM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: SeekAndFind

A big, socialist government with big, worthless revenues is...a socialist government that will shrink very much. Worthless dollars make no one big or rich. But the political class, some members directly and others indirectly supported by big government, will cling to the debt regime for their lives, until calls for repudiation overwhelm them (understatement).

The government of Argentina is not so big any more without its globalist ties. Large numbers of people there are participating in an enormous barter exchange, while government folks look on helplessly.


14 posted on 04/20/2011 1:42:46 PM PDT by familyop ("Don't worry, they'll row for a month before they figure out I'm fakin' it." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: SeekAndFind

translation: Lots o’ room to RAISE those TAXES!


15 posted on 04/20/2011 1:45:54 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: SeekAndFind
GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

What most folks don't REALIZE OR KNOW about GDP is that it includes Investment of all that free Fed money into commodities AND government spending.

Yes, GDP is doing much, much better than the "real" economy. Private consumption is in the toilet.

And, it's the PRIVATE economy that generates the tax revenues.

Roubini is either an idiot or a commie...or both.

Take out government spending and investment of free Fed money and we've likely taken a 30% hit in the real economy. Therefore taxes, as a percentage of the REAL economy are as high as ever...generating lower revenues as a result of a shrinking real economy. Raise those taxes and the real economy will shrink further.

16 posted on 04/20/2011 2:52:20 PM PDT by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, USS Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: SeekAndFind

Roubini was right about the mortgage crisis, but then so was I, so no big deal there (and I made a decent chunk of change on it).

The real question is what of the other 97% of the “experts” that were unable to figure that having banks make loans to people for 10 times their income probably wasn’t going to work out too well? Why does ANYONE listen to them, and just who was paying them off?


17 posted on 04/20/2011 5:32:59 PM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts))
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