Posted on 03/23/2011 4:58:55 AM PDT by marktwain
A bill in the legislature has taken an unlikely path, and a senate committee is taking the latest look. The bill would make it illegal for employers to forbid employees from keeping guns locked in their vehicles while at work.
The bill got a do not pass recommendation from the House committee that first looked at the bill, but passed overwhelmingly on the floor.
Basically the bill sets up a battle over property rights.
It`s no secret that many North Dakotans like to hunt, and the state constitution holds Second Amendment rights in high regard. But some gun owners say their rights are being violated when employers set rules not allowing employees to keep their guns locked in their vehicles at work.
"Somebody might want to go hunting before or after work. I have a friend in Aberdeen, S.D., who used to go over his lunch hour," explained Darin Goens of the National Rifle Association.
It`s not just hunting rifles, but also concealed weapons. Supporters of the legislation to block employers from prohibiting employees from keeping guns in their vehicles say gun owners should be allowed to protect themselves to and from work.
"The only thing that happens is we disarm the people who are using their guns for self defense against these guys. The bottom line is, the bad guys are going to ignore the signs," said Goens.
But businesses say this bill in turn violates their property rights.
"It should be the right of the company to enforce the firearm policy they deem appropriate," said Andy Peterson of the North Dakota Chamber of Commerce.
And at least one gun owner agrees.
Gun owner Mike Donahue said: "I think if somebody says, `I don`t want you bringing guns on my property,` he has the right to say that or do that. If a business owner says, `I don`t want any guns in my parking lot,` no guns in the parking lot."
Donahue says if gun owners want to have their guns locked in their vehicles at work. They should find somewhere else to park, like on the street.
Supporters of the legislation say, the owner of the vehicle also has property rights.
Similar legislation has passed in 13 other states, but failed in Montana and Wyoming. The bill does exempt certain workplaces like schools, correctional facilities and places with hazardous materials.
“Nobody has an inalienable right to be on another person’s land.”
What is that, the 3rd amendment in the Bill of Rights? Because you are suggesting a property owner can violate the 4th on a whim.
* Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
And what is the OSHA statute predicated on?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20090220/ai_n31383050/ p>
This article explains what the 10th circuit court said about OSHA vs state law.
At least we have 1 court on our side.
Indiana passed this law last year and my employer immediately change the rules forcing the employee to pay for back round and security checks, give a list of all firearm serial numbers and permits ect.
If there are any Indiana Lawyers interested in showing their mis-implementation of the law please send me a private post.
Then if he doesn't open the property to the public he can deny access and/or set terms and conditions upon entry. The vast majority of non-retail businesses are not open to the public. Even many retail businesses are closed to the public. I am not a member of Sam's club or Costco, for instance. So, the owners says I can't come in.
There is no second amendement right to posess firearms on another's private property if the property owner prohibits it. The constitution also provides for freedom of the press but that doesn't give someone the right to set up a newspaper business in my basement or parking lot.
What about a restaurant that requires a reservation to dine? You can’t just walk in, take a seat and order up the special. If they don’t extend a reservation, they are in fact barring you from the property.
And I disagree. But let me ask precisely what you think such corporate policies accomplish?? If someone is going to "go postal", do you honestly think a company policy of "no firearms in your vehicle" is going to stop them?? When they're willing to commit multiple murders.
I have no idea what that means or what you are asking.
First off, private property owners don't have to justify the wisdom of any legal restrictions they put on the use of their property. I'm not arguing the wisdom or lack thereof of such policies, just the right of a property owner to restrict the presence of firearms on his personal property if he deems it right to do so. I personally support the second amendment, own several firearms and practice with them regularly. But I support personal property rights every bit as much.
Which is more important to you:
The Second Amendment rights of all Americans.
-Or-
The property rights of anti-gun bigots?
Each are equally important. A free society could not stand without both.
A reservation is asked for. It may or may not be granted. Hip nightclubs are famous for this. If you showed up to Studio 54 wearing keds, hornrims and a pocket protector you didn't get past the fuzzy rope.
Are you also responsible for the physical safety of all people on your property while they are on you property? If so, wouldn't they require you to be armed?
See various “public” shoot outs where patrons have been injured/killed by criminals and ask your self about your property rights again. Yes, such events are low probability events but then so are hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and earth quakes. It is better to think things through to their end before it happens than to have regrets later.
I do too. However, my private vehicle property rights supercedes his parking lot property rights, imo. As long as my guns stay in my vehicle, I don't see where he has the right to violate my property rights.
Exactly!
Sam's club can require a handicapped person to apply for entry to the business. If entry is granted it comes with conditions.
BTW, the Whirlpool facility in question was not open to the public.
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