LIVE thread & Breaking News ~ Japan

Various | 15 March 2011

[SE Mom]

Latest news from Japan:

From the BBC-

1456: Tepco says it may start pouring water from a helicopter over Fukushima Daiichi's reactor four in the next few days, to cool the spent-fuel pool.

1439: A 30km (18 mile) no-fly zone is in place around Fukushima, says the IAEA.

1436: The IAEA says Monday's blast at Fukushima may have affected the integrity of the containment vessel - there are fears of more serious radioactive leaks if happen.

1435: Following earlier reports, it appears there has been more than one strong aftershock in Japan - AP reports two tremors measuring over 6.0 within three minutes of each other.

Twitter-

-US Geological Survey counts 451 aftershocks since the initial earthquake struck Japan Friday. 238 of them registered magnitude 5.0 or more.

-Despite situations in Japan & Libya, spksmn Jay Carney says Pres Obama's 5-day trip to Brazil, Chile & El Salvador starting Fri night is on.

-FLASH: More U.S. military personnel in Japan testing positive for low-levels of radiation, relief missions to continue - Navy 18 minutes ago via web

[SE Mom]

Hey you:) Wondered where you were.

Bahrain, Libya, Saudi, Japan... and the president is jetting off to South America on pressing business after he picks his basketball favorites.

[Drill Thrawl]

ROR

[nonliberal]

http://neutroneconomy.blogspot.com/

Blog on the Japanese reactors by actual nuclear physicists, not journalists.

[Windflier]

...please ditch the insider lingo. Actually communicating is such a better idea.

I've noticed that the terminology involved with this nuclear tragedy is hampering most people's ability to understand what's occurring. Going past a misunderstood word causes a mental blank in a person's mind. Pass over enough of them, and the whole text becomes a blank.

Last night, I thought about compiling a short layman's dictionary of terms related to this accident, so that people could better understand what the authorities are saying. Perhaps I still will. Lord knows I've gotten my own share of misunderstoods while reading these articles.

[Windflier]

Thanks for posting those pictures of typical BWR reactors, Ernest. Gives people some mass to go along with all of the concepts they’re attempting to learn.

[SE Mom]

Whew- now that’s someting we can use! Thank you.

Oh- some other good news:

NHK is reporting the flames at the No. 4 reactor are no longer visible
by Stephanie Ditta at 7:02

[chimera]

Here is simple risk assessment formula that I think should be used in determining the catastrophe failure possibilities of a nuclear power plant. Simply take the number of planets humans inhabit and subtract 1. That's the only acceptable error rate that the world will accepted in the future after this catastrophe.

I guess I don't understand your equation. According to the world population clock, at 23:02 UTC on 3/15/2011 the world population was 6,905,991,023. According to your formula, if I subtract 1 from this total, I get 6,905,991,022. Are you saying that an error rate of 6,905,991,022 is "acceptable"? That seems pretty high to me, based on 30+ years experience in engineering, in private, public, and academic jobs. Better to use the historical nuclear industry average for LWR technology: zero fatalities, zero injuries among the general population.

[Windflier]

"...the threat does not come from the power plant, but from panic spread by press misinformation."

Can't be repeated often enough, in my opinion. Mark Levin is making the same point, as I type this.

The excerpt you posted is excellent, and should be posted frequently. Any chance you can post the link to it?

[WestCoastGal]

I’m willing to make a bet he took his golf clubs with him. Donald Trump raked him over the coals for his behavior the day of and day after the quake playing golf and now vacation in SA.

[Errant]

I guess I don't understand your equation.

I can now say with some certainy that you're at least right once in awhile. ;)

[fred2008]

Good find!

[Windflier]

So if the control rods that house the nuclear fuel pellets melt, what then?

The control rods don't hold the nuclear fuel pellets. The fuel rods do. The control rods are inserted to stop the nuclear chain reaction, which was done automatically by the system when the earthquake first hit.

[chimera]

So you think it is correct, an error rate of 6,905,991,022 is acceptable? That’s what I get if I follow your equation. Hey, you’re the one who proposed it. I say that is a little on the high side. Better to go with the historical nuclear average of zero fatalities, zero injuries.

[BuckeyeTexan]

Update as of 2:15 EDT March 15, 2001
Tokyo Electric Power Co. said that an oil leak in a cooling water pump at Unit 4 was the cause of a fire that burned for approximately 140 minutes. The fire was not in the spent fuel pool, as reported by several media outlets.(Emphasis mine.)

Updated at 5:00 PM EDT March 15, 2011
Fact Sheet: Used Nuclear Fuel Storage at Fukushima Daiichi

[chimera]

I'm sorry, I misread your post. OK, you want a zero failure rate. We've got that with zero fatalities with the historical average. I apologize for the misreading. I read human inhabitants. Sorry.

[nonliberal]

No prob. Those guys describe, right down to minute detail, what is going on with the Japanese reactors and basically call BS on the American media.

[nonliberal]

Thanks. One of the bloggers, Steve Skutnik, did our undergrad work at ISU together. He got a physics degree and I got a history degree.

[chimera]

So, from an engineering viewpoint, do you really think a zero failure rate is attainable for anything? I agree it is a worthy goal, but from a practical viewpoint, is it possible to engineer any system to obtain absolute perfection, even at ruinous costs.

At some point you are faced with the question, how much is enough? The best we can do as engineers is look at historical risks and try to find what people seem to find "acceptable" in ordinary life, and use that as a baseline for designing systems that can meet some criteria for minimum risk acceptance. Its done that way with everything, automotive, aviation, chemical, medical, civil engineering, whatever.

[Errant]

After this calamity, the world isn't going to except any new nuclear power plants with anything less than zero risk of catastrophic failure. Find a way to meet that target and nuclear power will be a viable source of power in the future. Ignore that simple fact at your own employment peril, if you work in the nuclear power plant industry.

[ponygirl]

I was thinking that the coolant kept boiling off and evaporating, exposing the rods and increasing the heat, but now I am wondering if the lower containment is cracked... Particularly since the water levels in # 5 & 6 are lowering, even tho they were shut down at the time of the quake?

Also, I wouldn't pay any attention what anything the surgeon general for this administration is saying. FGS, she's probably another affirmative action appointee.

I did find this link, that seems at least sane regarding KI pills: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014504194_nukehealth16m.html "I'm very concerned that there could be a significant problem in Japan," he said. "I'm less concerned about the health effects here in the United States."