Maybe if lots of people wore these before an incident...(just kidding)
Posted on 01/10/2011 10:38:50 AM PST by Qwackertoo
In light of the incident in FL, woman whacked shooter with her purse, and now in AZ and the woman grabbed the second clip before he could re-load . . . I'm a lady and carry a .380 Ruger LCP. I'm thinking it wouldn't do much good in these situations AND I'm thinking I could easily get myself shot IF the police or others thought I was the SHOOTER and not someone trying to help.
Scary days we live in. Play dead OR try to take the shooter out? Get a bigger gun? I also own a Colt .357 but too big to carry much less conceal.
I think both of those two older ladies were quite brave in the face of grave danger in both of these shootings.
Maybe if lots of people wore these before an incident...(just kidding)
Thank you. I don’t have military or police training. I certainly didn’t expect to be told I should tear up my carry permit in the very first reply. I thought I had heard one guy, saw him interviewed on FOX News this morning, that after he took the gun out of the shooters hand, someone tackled him and held him down until they quickly he was NOT the shooter, he may have even been the guy that went into Walgreens to buy cigarettes and was actually carrying and the shooting started while he was in Walgreens, so I thought my questions were not of some chicken who should tear up her carry permit.
Very good post.
Thank you for the information, it is appreciated.
“heard the shooter was at that time being held down and restrained by two other erstwhile bystanders”
Yep, shooting the perp in the head under these conditions would be considered unsporting and legally questionable.
Excellent points about having the correct ammunition. There’s 2 kinds of ammo you should buy; range ammo and carry ammo....not that you shouldn’t practice with some carry ammo from time to time, but it can get pricey!
From a purely tactical point of view, carry a knife.
While I honor and respect both CC and open carry guns, they have their limitations, gaps in situations where a knife is clearly better.
A good way of thinking about it is, of all things, trench warfare, where infantrymen quickly learned that it was best to have a pistol in one hand and a knife in the other. Between the two, an individual had the optimal ability to move quickly and inflict the most harm before other armed men could react.
The #1 problem for ordinary people is that a gun conveys a suicidal sense of omnipotence and control in a situation that does not actually exist. Many people have been shot multiple times and still been functional for as long as an hour, more than enough time to harm the person who shot them.
Second is that gun play is prone to having extended moments when bullets are not flying. This is a good example, when the gunman was exchanging magazines. Within range, there are no pauses with a knife, and people can rapidly close on a gunman, 15 to 25 feet in a few seconds.
Third, knife injuries are relatively far deadlier and disabling than are gunshot wounds. Psychologically as well, gunshots often feel like a hard punch, especially to a person who is inebriated, but knives slash across many capillaries, with a resultant gush of blood that penetrates even the dimmest of awareness.
A permit requires one to act very prudently.
Sometime the prudent thing may be to hold off on drawing until a better opportunity presents itself.
As a former LEO, I tell you most all our training was within 7 yards, as that is where most all shootings occur. Yes we did practice at 50 yds too but the chance of such a situation arrising is remote and I would leave gun fights at that range to anyone with a long gun. Furthermore, it is hard to demonstrate how someone at 50 yds is an immediate threat to you with a CCW.
At extremely close range, there may not be time to sight, so some proficiency must be developed for point shooting. Point of aim, 7 yrds, 15 yds or 50 yds was center mass. Put the front sight on center mass and fire, when not point shooting. With adrenalin running high, trying to hit someone in the head, or “wound” them, is almost an impossibility so don’t consider it.
I carry a 380 Bersa with 90 grain Corbon JHPs. These rounds are the equal of a 38 special fired from a 2 inch firearm. In my car I have a 40 glock model 23 with 135 Winchester lawman JHPs. 13 shots verses 8 in the Bersa.
On the job I never fired my weapon except during training over 30 years. Off the job, I have had to display a weapon twice to protect myself, no shots were fired but the mere presense stopped what I knew to be a developing bad situation for me.
In summary, carry a firearm you are familiar with through practice, know when to use it, and be certain you can put your rounds on target for two reasons: the first is the only effective rounds are those that land, the second is every one that misses has a lawyer attached to it.
Be safe, be aware.
Carry a badge, one of the CCW badges will work fine. Pin it on the INSIDE of your wallet, and if you have to shoot, hold the wallet and badge over your head. If you're arrested for *impersonating* a police officer, see uif they can find a jury that'll convict you, being in fear of your life by virtue of being shot in the back by a cop.
Scary days we live in. Play dead OR try to take the shooter out?
Play scared, or cry. Then stick it into the bad guy/girl's ear, eye or mouth and pull that little lever thingie three or four times. If you're not close enough to hit him with the gun, thrown, you're not close enough to hit him with a handgun, not the first time.
Get a bigger gun? Nope. Practice more with what you got, or a .22 as like it as you can find. If you can handle a week away and a thousand bucks or so, arttend a serious shooting school, the equivalent of *rookie school* for a cop. I also own a Colt .357 but too big to carry much less conceal.
Little one on your body, bug one in your bag. Works fior me.
I think both of those two older ladies were quite brave in the face of grave danger in both of these shootings.
I doubt it. I suspect they just reacted instinctively as best they could, and afterward they had the shaking fits. They're likely PTSD candidates; those who've considered the realities of an up-close shooting and the aftermath are in much better shape.
yefragetuwrabrumuy brings up a very important point. Carry a knife, you can bring it anywhere and I think it is easier to use when adrenaline takes over. Can be in a variety of holsters and very easy to conceal..
In the situation that happened in a crowd with all of you misses having very good chance of hitting someone. If you are behind the shooter getting as close as possible and then shooting him point blank or using a knife would probably be the safest approach. From the front you better find some cover first probably
Problem with that is that a CCW in my state does not give you legal right to carry a knife, brass knucks, the usual martial arts hardware, etc., so a knife is a bad idea.
In the hands of one proficient, it is lethal. In the hands of the ordinary person: It is too likely that the bad guy will take it away from you and stick you with it.
As for the situation in AZ, I would have taken the position that the bad guy was going to shoot me so nothing to lose by shooting him...providing he was close. Bad idea to shoot from too far and miss.
As for carrying on school property...DO NOT.
If is my understanding that If you are caught in the PO or a bar, there is a fine...a misdemeanor. Caught in a school is a felony. You will lose your CCW.
If I misunderstand the law, will a real lawyer or LEO correct my statement.
Preparation, mental and physical, probably count as much or more than the weapon choice. It sounds as if you are doing a good job thinking the process through.
Sometimes people die from a .22 hit. Congresswoman Giffords is still alive after sustaining a serious head shot with a 9mm. I agree with posters who comment that a .380 in hand beats an AK-47 back at the ranch.
I CC either a .38 revolver or full size .45 but have concealment problems, especially in hot weather. I have been thinking about getting a .380 for that reason. My thinking is that ease of concealment would make it more likely that I would carry it at times I leave the others behind.
if you own an LCP you should know the difference between a clip and a magazine
I swear every time the elderly woman, the one that reached out to grab that mag described it as a “magazine” the news reporting was turning a shade of red because to them all bullets are in clips, pictures are in magazines.
I am very glad the one guy that was carrying didn’t make a poor decision and mistakenly shot one of the people that had wrestled the G19 away.
Take a class from any reputable handgun trainer and stop worrying about it. These are folks like Massad Ayoob, Rob Pincus, Clint Smith, the folks at Gunsite or others of similar training. They will set you on the right path.
My main CCW pistol is a Glock 26. It carries 11 rounds of 9mm is a very compact package with a trigger that helps you get accurate, consistent hits.
Mine is in an inside the waistband holster as we speak.
My LCP has a clip. I thought a magazine was like one of those long curved ammo clips. I’m sorry I don’t know all brands and all things guns.
and from this article, sounds like lots of people make that mistake. I only said a magazine because that is what they said and called it on the news, and they didn’t show a photo of it.
http://www.thegunzone.com/clips-mags.html
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