Self-sacrificing degrees of greatness are untenable when there is nothing great worth sacrificing for.
Posted on 12/18/2010 5:45:06 PM PST by neverdem
In a widely read and commented upon post, Nigel Barber examines some of the evidence and trends related to atheism and the decline of religion. Barber closes his thought-provoking post with the following:
"The reasons that churches lose ground in developed countries can be summarized in market terms. First, with better science, and with government safety nets, and smaller families, there is less fear and uncertainty in people's daily lives and hence less of a market for religion. At the same time many alternative products are being offered, such as psychotropic medicines and electronic entertainment that have fewer strings attached and that do not require slavish conformity to unscientific beliefs."
It is true that much of the developed world lives in not only a post-Christian, but a post-religious society in many ways. And it is true that many people have turned to religion because of economic uncertainty or emotional challenges. They still do, in fact.
However, for many people, religion is not merely a way to deal with fear, uncertainty, and emotional difficulties. In my experience, many people follow a particular religious way of life because they believe that it is true. The problem with a market-based analysis of the future of religion, as well as the market-based practices present in many contemporary religious communities, is that religion at its best is not a consumer product. Rather, at its best religious faith calls for sacrifice, unselfishness, love, and a willingness to remove oneself from the center of the universe, so to speak. In order to be willling to live in such a way, a self-centered market-based approach to religion will not do. Rather, one must believe that she is living in a way that is consistent with reality in order to motivate an unselfish approach to life.
It is also unclear how atheism is positioned to replace religion, in the following way. Atheism is the belief that God does not exist. But this, in and of itself, cannot form the foundation for a way of life. Only by forming and practicing positive beliefs and values can one build a coherent and meaningful life. So if something is to replace religion, it will not be atheism. Perhaps some form of secular humanism will accomplish this task. But here we run into another problem, namely, that human beings long for transcendence of some sort, as shown by the presence and prevalence of religious belief throughout cultures across time.
On this topic, Barber claims that sports can replace religion. In one sense, I think he is right. The loyalty, community-identification, and limited transcendence of the experiences related to sports do fuflill many of the functions of religion for many people. However--and I am a passionate sports fan and participant--at the end of the day sports are incapable of doing the work needed to provide sufficient meaning, transcendence, and fulfillment in life. But even if sport can do this to some degree, the view that sport is replacing religion fails to notice that religion should not be approached as a consumer good.
Lastly, we should be very grateful for the powerful psychopharmacological substances which can make life better for many of us. However, we must remember that religion is not merely about making my life better. Religion at its best is about making me better, and a better contributor to the common good. In closing, I think the reports of the impending death and replacement of religion with atheism are greatly exaggerated.
note name change per this thread.
Where are you?
We’re in New England.
Very few bright spots for Christ up here. When you try to share Christ with folks up here, they will tell you that they’re “all set”.
True faith does not come from praying. Faith comes from the word of God (Bible) and his sacraments.
Prayers are our conversing with our Lord.
> The human race divides politically into those who want
> people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
Almost the same as what I propose, and that is ...
The human race divides politically into those who want to be left alone to pursue their interests and dreams, and meddling busybodies who think they know what’s best for everybody and work to impose their worldview on everybody.
Unfortunately, the former are usually too busy working, raising families, building, and contributing economically to run for political office, while the latter make their living by running for political office, having their lives supported by the very people they desire to control.
Many, if not most, of these politicians have never done an honest day’s work in their lives. Like our president and virtually his entire staff, they have lived off tax moneys since getting out of college, which was also likely paid for by tax moneys.
Solution: Starve the beast.
Any politician who does not have a real business that becomes a millionaire while in office, and there are many, many of these, should have his finances investigated to the minutest detail. Any anomalies should immediately disqualify him from public office and expose him to criminal action with jail time.
Interesting... never thought of it that way— “narcissistic religion.”
It is based on bitterness, too. The atheist may have been hurt at some point.
I see no reason to believe that the supernatural exists. It really is as simple as that.
I live in one of the collar counties of Washington DC. They can’t build churches fast enough here. It’s SRO on Sunday mornings, and the churches open branch offices and livestream the services to make it easier for people to hear the Word. Many or most of the new ones are nondenominational, conservative churches; the mainstream Protestant churches aren’t having much luck, though thousands are joining the Catholic Church.
I'd take Him over a Swaggart every time.
Sadly, He hasn’t been around in the last 2,000 years.
Self-sacrificing degrees of greatness are untenable when there is nothing great worth sacrificing for.
Why must something be offered? It is the failing weakness of the human being that make him/her believe. Is it not possible to live life for it’s own sake? Must we reach for some intangible hereafter that promises, (yes promises) a better “life” “place” “existence” in an afterlife? We knew nothing of the world or God before we were born. We are only here because of our ability to swim harder and faster than a million other sperm, so why are we so special? Even this can be argued as being the will of God as can anything and everything according to religion.
Blastphemy you say? A man made concept to marginalize those who might think differently from the masses.
For those to whom religion is a comfort, I say be comforted
and enjoy the peace of mind that religious comfort provides.
As for the atheists, they too live in peace and comfort believing in their non belief.
Practitioners of a religious belief system believe that someday they will rejoice in heaven and there is nothing wrong with that.
Agnostics believe in some force of nature but cannot define what that is, it may be God or some other omnipotent being and there is nothing wrong with that.
Atheists believe that when life over, it’s over, that’s all there is and there’s nothing wrong with that either.
So debate it if you wish, believe what you wish. If the believers are right, good for them. If the Atheists are right, it really won’t matter.
This is pure unadulterated nonsense. Intellecual masturbation. When we both die you can tell me how right you were in that wonderful afterlife.
Agreed. However, that is a individual choice. And my point was a generalization.
I have known some very angry atheists. It was as if they had something to prove. And they did it with an intensity that would be considered “fanatic.”
The larger point: for a person to say that there isn’t a higher existence takes as much of a leap of faith as person who believes in a higher existence.
It also depends on what you define as a religion, too: 1. organized religion and the dogma and ritual that goes with it or 2. a higher, generalized belief in a “creator.” An observation that the universe and its laws are not random and therefor there is a plan and a planner.
That's certainly one form the experience can take, In fact if you believe in a god with a direct interest in human lives, on some level that's what the experience *has* to be.
If Christianity ceased to exist, other religions would step up to fill the vacuum. I would surmise that those religions which are more aggressive with respect to gaining converts would dominate. In my opinion, that would be Islam.
I've never known an angry atheist, as least on a personal basis. They certainly exist...but then, so do angry fanatical believers of all stripes.
The larger point: for a person to say that there isn’t a higher existence takes as much of a leap of faith as person who believes in a higher existence.
I agree, which is why I don't affirmatively deny a higher existence; I just have no belief in it.
It also depends on what you define as a religion, too: 1. organized religion and the dogma and ritual that goes with it or 2. a higher, generalized belief in a “creator.” An observation that the universe and its laws are not random and therefor there is a plan and a planner.
I would tend to prefer the first definition. #2 sounds more like Deism, which is more of a philosophical viewpoint than a religion per se.
Fanatics... I have met a couple. I have met a few fanatical Christians, too.
“I agree, which is why I don’t affirmatively deny a higher existence; I just have no belief in it.”
Interesting. Makes sense. And an important distinction.
So are you an agnostic?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_atheism
It would be wonderful if God and an afterlife existed, but in the absence of evidence I have no reason to think that it's so...but I don't know that I'm right in the manner that those who affirm or deny God's existence think that they do.
You have thought this through.
My belief...
What we observe through our senses is a deception. Our senses are specialized and are designed to insure our survival in the physical world.
One way of bypassing the senses is to use math and the scientific process to more accurately describe the real world — quantum mechanics. I recommend the Dancing WuLi Masters.... if your are interested.
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