Posted on 12/17/2010 10:59:14 AM PST by markomalley
It was not heavily advertised, but earlier this year dishwashing detergent makers reworked their formulas to comply with environmental regulations banning phosphates. NPR reports that consumers are starting to get very frustrated:
Sue Wright from Austin, Texas, says for months her cups and glasses have been coming out of her year-old dishwasher covered with black specks. She called three repairmen to her kitchen, but her dishes were still dirty.
"I looked at a plumber's rear end for about two months this summer sticking out from under my sink," Wright says. "I was just totally frustrated. I couldn't figure out what was going wrong."
Finally, after months of aggravation and expense, Wright found out the real reason for her speckled cups: This summer, detergent makers took phosphates out of their detergents.
Seventeen states banned phosphates from dishwasher detergents because the chemical compounds also pollute lakes, bays and streams. They create algae blooms and starve fish of oxygen.
But dirty and damaged dishes are turning many people into skeptics, including Wright.
"I'm angry at the people who decided that phosphate was growing algae. I'm not sure that I believe that," Wright adds.
This reminds me that satirist P.J. O'Rourke was joking when he wrote this last year:
The next great government crusade will be against soap. The president will appoint a Blue Ribbon Commission, which will determine that soap releases polluting grime into the ecosystem, leads to aquifer depletion, and contains fatty acids that laboratory studies have shown to be acidic and not fat-free…
Big government -- it's impossible to parody any more.
Look at this wikipedia line for trisodium phosphate:
“TSP was once the major component of laundry and dishwashing detergents. However, the phosphate contained in these products was not removed from wastewater during treatment and was then subsequently discharged into watersheds and larger bodies of water. “
Why don’t the eco-nazis, who have no problem telling automakers to “invent” cars that get great mpg or energy producers to “invent” cleaner production, don’t tell the gov’t to invent a water treatment system that removes the phosphates their worried about?
The the gov’t could sell those same phosphates back to the manufacturers that use them.
But no, much better to reduce the quality of life for everyday folks.
Everyone washing dishes by hand sends us back to the ‘50s. How much longer till we’re in the dark ages!
They’re from the government, and they’re here to help us.
Just relax and feel helped and protected that The Wrong People can’t get unauthorized packages of Nyquil. Those of us with unauthorized allergies/head colds, should know better.
is there a phosphate adative?
or are we supposed to double up on the soap?
All this time, I thought it was because my children were leaving the dishes on the counter and not washing them. Silly me. We don’t have a working dishwasher.
Ping for future reference
He might have enjoyed her looking at his rear. (She said it)
A six figure study no doubt!
AMEN!
AMEN!
I got some of the skinny about this from a pool supply store.
Back in the 1960s, phosphates were banned from laundry soap, because though it is generally harmless to people, when it made it to streams and rivers as treated effluent, the phosphorus in it acted as fertilizer for algae.
However, automatic dishwashers were far less common back then, so there was no push to ban the use of phosphates for dishwasher detergent, especially because it cleaned dishes so effectively that it was thought to prevent a lot of food poisoning.
But today, because of so much phosphate in recycled effluent city water from dishwasher detergent, *and* because it is used as a sealant in PVC pipe, phosphate levels can be sky high.
And ironically, phosphate is added to water to help remove metallic lead.
And this mattered a lot to a pool supply store, as it means that pool owners have to use a lot more chlorine to kill algae in their phosphate rich pool water.
So, as in the 1960s, is it starting to cause a lot of algae growth in surface water? The big problem there is that more algae means less oxygen in the water for fish and other animals.
The bottom line is that, while phosphate detergent is good to clean dishes, over the long haul we need to find some good alternative to it, as it is one of those things that it is best to save for important, instead of day to day uses.
"We have used Cascade dishwashing powders for over 25 years in fact it is basically the only detergent we have ever used. Proctor and Gamble changed their tried and true formula to "phosphate free" and it is now USELESS and destructive to use!
The last two boxes we purchased are WORTHLESS and now CASCADE POWDER is the WORST PRODUCT WE HAVE EVER USED. It has RUINED SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE IN OUR DISHWASHER and coated ALL of our dishes, glasses, cups, silverware, aluminum cookware and non stick pans with a dingy, grimy white film! OUR DISHES NOW COME OUT DIRTIER THAN IF WE HAD NOT USED CASCADE AT ALL! In all of the years we have been using CASCADE we have NEVER had problems until now. My rinse aid is full. At first we thought our dishwasher was broken. I cannot continue to buy this product as it has ruined my dishes.
Proctor and Gamble's excuse for changing the formula was that they are required to be phosphate free by "state and local" laws. Be that as it may they should have created a product that WORKS before releasing it to the public!
They better hope those laws extend to New Hampshire, because I will be using a different brand going forward if I can find one that has phosphates in it here in New Hampshire. I may switch to another brand altogether because P&G has so alienated me on this.
I called to complain and P&G admitted that NOW their CASCADE powder DOES NOT WORK if you do not have perfect soft water! In order to clean my dishes I was told that I need to use their Cascade gell or their Cascade Complete! Consumers should not have to pay TWICE AS MUCH JUST TO GET CLEAN DISHES!
CASCADE DISHWASHING powder is supposed to CLEAN dishes, not make them dirty!
If Proctor and Gamble is no longer capable of creating a CASCADE POWDER product/formula that CLEANS dishes instead of making them dirty and destroys them then P&G should stop selling CASCADE dishWASHING products all together and get out of the market!
Come on P&G stop blaming the consumer and reformulate the product. FIX the PROBLEM OR STOP SELLING CASCADE dishDIRTYING powder to unsuspecting consumers."
One more thing: Given the thousands upon thousands of loyal CASCADE users who have had their dishes, flatware, glassware, cookware and numerous cooking and serving utensils DESTROYED AFTER USING THE terrible new CASCADE powder products I would not be surprised if a class action law suit isn't filed against P&G and everyone associated with the CASCADE dish, flatware, glassware, cookware DESTROYING garbage powder. As soon as it is announced we will be filing along with them!
I use a 1:1 mix of borax and washing soda in my dishwasher, and use white vinegar in the rinse additive dispenser.
It works just fine.
My last bottle of Cascade was as thin as water..... (And I do mean last)
>>a class action law suit
Yippeee. Another lawsuit.
You ever consider you’ve become emotionally attached to a brand of dishwasher detergent?
P J had another great line in regards to this.
“Everybody wants to save the world, but nobody wants to help Mum with the dishes.”
— P.J. O’Rourke
Suphedrdrine - A decongestant that is Phenylephrine HCI 10 mg (in a flat redish orange box)
ChlorTabs - An Antihistamine containing Chlorpheniramine Maleate 4mg (in a square green box)
This was at Walmart, so both are labeled by Equate. They seem to be helping my allergy, but both are a 4 hour pill.
is there a phosphate addative?
Thanks for the tip!
We installed a new dw just about the time the detergents were modified. So I was all over GE on this, and not understanding what the real problem was.
This sounds like a good fix.
As for joining the suit, we would because P&G is directly responsible: Using the new CASCADE "dishwashing" Powder was directly responsible for destroying a lot of our dishes, glasses, anodized aluminum pots, pans, Onida flatware, etc costing hundreds of dollars in damages and we are not alone their CASCADE powder product have directly adversely affected millions of consumers to date and it is going to continue until they are forced to stop making the product or totally reformulate it.
If you will take the time to read any new CASCADE powder box; there is absolutely NO WARNING ANYWHERE as to how damaging and destructive using their newly formulated powder is ON EVERYTHING BEING WASHED IN THE DISHWASHER UNLESS YOU HAVE PERFECT SOFT WATER!
Thank you both for the tip!
Sheesh, it takes a trip to the local farmer feed & seed too to get veterinary pesticides that actually kill bugs around the house.
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