Glenn Beck: They’re lying to us about the mystery contrail

Hot Air ^ | 11/19/2010 | Right Scoop

[JohnKinAK]

Glenn Beck said today that he has spoken to military experts about the mystery contrail from a few weeks ago and he says it’s definitely not a plane, but rather a two stage missile. He just wants to know where it came from, and he has a theory. Beck postulates that this missile was possibly from a Chinese sub off the coast of California, perhaps as a show of force to the world, but even more so to President Obama.

Click link for video

[Finny]

Yep.

[TigersEye]

That’s the longest denial of reality I think I’ve ever read. Not even close to what did happen or what usually happens when the gov denies a non-story.

[Rokke]

"Most of the people who buy the airplane contrail, when asked directly, say they've never seen a live missile launch, but they've seen a lot of airplane contrails and they're awfully clever with slide-rules and computations and such."

Then perhaps you should educate them by providing lots of examples of what a missile launch actually does look like, so they will be more educated and more likely to agree with your assessment. But I seem to recall you have very adamantly argued against discussing any picture, video or experience that doesn't fit your assessment of what is depicted in the Leyvas video. The irony is, your approach to the topic actually reduces the chance that anyone will agree with your assessment. You are your own worst advocate. You believe that observing multiple missile launches gives you the authority to declare that what is depicted in the Leyvas video is a missile launch. Yet, despite being asked time and again to produce any photographic or video evidence of any missile launch ever that looks anything like the contrail in the video, you refuse. I read your repeated assertions that all the "experts" you talk to agree with you, but whenever you are asked to explain how you or they account for the fact that whatever was depicted in the video performs nothing like a missile (other than obviously being airborne) you refuse. Instead, you demand that everyone simply take it on yours and their authority as experienced observers that what has almost no characteristics common to a missile launch is absolutely 100% a missile launch. I'd give you credit for a nice try...but it isn't.

If I told you that I had 15 years experience flying Air Force fighters and am currently an LAX based FedEx MD-11 pilot and have more time observing weird contrails and missile trails from all altitudes and angles than a vast majority of the world's population, would it change your mind about what you think you see in the video? I didn't think so. That is why I have provided you example after example of what an actual missile launch looks like (in both photo and video format). I've tried to untangle your analysis of how sunlight from a sun of unknown location or elevation can reveal the horizontal or vertical orientation of clouds and contrails, but quickly realized that what is obvious to you does not necessarily reflect reality. That seems to be a trend with you.

And by the way, the editor of Jane's now says the contrail was a contrail.

[Rokke]

"That’s the longest denial of reality I think I’ve ever read. Not even close to what did happen or what usually happens when the gov denies a non-story."

Really? Give me a counter example that illustrates your point.

[Ransomed]

“Manipulated possibly; you decide to what end, and there is more than one possibility.”

Sure, I can see two main ones.

As I see it, there are two possible reasons why the whole video has not been released.

1-The gubberment asked them not to. The edited and cut section of footage that has been released got out before they asked them to not post the whole thing. If this is the case, the whole video is probably gone. The gubberment just got really lucky that KCBS chose to use no footage of the lingering smoke trail with the object disapearing off into the west in their report, and that they chose not to just stick all the uncut footage up on the web before they started threatening them.

2-The whole video would not show boost stages and then 8-9 minutes of a lingering smoke plume. It would show a jet. A local CBS station manipulated the video to make traffic for their website and give the story legs. If this is the case, the whole video is probably gone, in order to save jobs and more black eyes for the CBS name.

“Here’s the video you hardly ever see.”

That video is around 50 some seconds long, and has many cuts. How much footage do you think was taken? Do you know of any 50 second video of the event that has no cuts? Even 50 seconds of footage straight through would probably show it either is a plane or a missile. Not saying it wasn’t a missile, just that it seems really fishy as far as KCBS goes.

Freegards

[TigersEye]

For the six years that the public knew there was a stealth bomber (or was it the stealth fighter) they simply said “we don’t know what you’re seeing. We don’t have anything like that.” No contradictory and stupid “we don’t know what it is but it’s no threat” story. I can’t remember any time they ever said they were investigating something like this just to come out a few days later and say “we think it was an airplane contrail but we don’t know.”

[Rokke]

The contrail was filmed late afternoon on 8 November. The next day (less then 24 hours later) the DoD released the following statement

"The Dept. of Defense statement from Col. Dave Lapan, the Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, reads:

"While there is nothing at this time that leads the Department of Defense to believe this is a missile launch, the department and other U.S. government agencies with expertise in aviation and space continue to look into the condensation trail (CONTRAIL) seen and reported off the coast of southern California on Monday evening.

"All DoD entities with rocket and missile programs reported no launches, scheduled or inadvertent, during the time period in the area of the reported contrail. NORAD and USNORTHCOM confirmed that it did not monitor any foreign military missile launch off the California coast yesterday and has determined that there was no threat to the US homeland.

"In addition, the FAA ran radar replays from Monday afternoon of a large area west of Los Angeles. Those replays did not reveal any fast-moving, unidentified targets. The FAA also did not receive reports of any unusual sightings from pilots who were flying in the area Monday afternoon.

"If any new information comes to light in the coming days, we will update the press and public." "

What about that statement is "uncertain, confused and morphed into gooberment speak."?

With regards to the stealth fighter program...that was hardly a non-story.

[Tommyjo]

I’m ex-UK military (Royal Air Force). I’m fully retired.

[Tommyjo]

There are no contrails in Leyvas' video

Wrong! That is why the full video footage requires to be released.

Where do you think CBS got the following contrail image from? It isn't part of the released video footage! Yet again more evidence that what CBS showed was edited for effect.

Check out the Hermosa beach images from the 8th November. It is obvious from the above image, titled 'missile launch 1' that Gil Leyvas zoomed into one of the other contrails present in the sky before transferring his attention to the large contrail. The above image is in the series of stills released by KCBS.

Link to KCBS Image Gallery

Where are any other contrails in this huge swath of the west coast? Sheesh!

Explained on the NASA webpage.

What size contrail can be seen in a satellite image?

Link to NASA webpage

Perhaps you would like to contact Dr Patrick Minnis of NASA for further analysis?

Link to Dr Minnis webpage

In other posts to you I've also hightlighted the NASA scientists Doug Spangenberg, David Duda and Rabindra Palikonda who assisted Patrick Minnis with his assessment. Perhaps you would like do a websearch for their contact details? Here is your chance to ask them directly! Maybe you can add a few 'Sheesh's' to any mail that you send them?

[Tommyjo]

Why don’t you contact Cargo Law and ask them? I’ve provided you with the contact address on that last reply in relation to the time. Are you still claiming that the image is faked? Perhaps you would like to bring that up with them as well?

[Tommyjo]

You protectors of Obama's failed foreign policy sure have some chutzpah.

Epic fail there! Why do you automatically assume that you are responding to an Obama supporter? Can't someone have an opinion outside of politics?

[GOPJ]

Where do you think CBS got the following contrail image from? It isn't part of the released video footage! Yet again more evidence that what CBS showed was edited for effect.

I have to admit, CBS is NOT the most credible source... they tend to tamper. Then again, liberals in government tend to lie... Anyhow, what matters is: it's nice to have you here, Tommyjo.

[Lando Lincoln]

I absolutely, positively, without-a-doubt agree with you fellow tribesman. It is amazing that we believe the government is too dumb to tie their shoes, but can simultaneously pull off a conspiracy/cover-up of epic proportions.

[Finny]

One more clue, guys.

As I stated, THE ONLY WAY that an airline contrail can be mistaken for a missile plume is in a still photo.

Someone who has never watched live missile launches doesn't know that.

Someone who has only seen still shots or videos of missile launches has zero idea of the whole truth that ONLY A STILL PHOTO can mislead an observer into mistaking an airplane contrail for a missile plume. Those of you who have never seen a missile launch or only seen them from 200 miles or so, take heed.

No matter how the video footage taken by Leyvas was edited, UNLESS they were using advanced tech to REVERSE the angle of the sun's lighting so that an east-bound horizontal contrail could somehow be made to look like a vertical plume on a north-west heading, the video tells the truth whether it's in an 18-second "clip" or a still shot. So even the suggestion that Leyvas/CBS "altered" the video so that a moving airliner leaving a contrail would look like a missile leaving a plume is ridiculous on its face, because if they did, they did a damned poor job of making it look like it was eastbound, and Leyvas is clearly an actor and liar of gargantuan proportions.

Frankly, I think that "possibility" is a a whole helluva lot more kooky and paranoid than the idea that the government, aided by agents of disinformation, is doing its damndest to convince gullible people that the missile was an airliner, and gullible people who also believe they have such mighty intellectual capacity that they can analyze photo evidence of a phenomenon of which they have zero empirical knowledge, are happy to help them "prove" it and "prove" as well how calm they are; in reality, they prove to ungullied observers something entirely different.

TX, you and the rest of you folks who've been dominating and bullying and shouting on these threads how much mightier your brains are in analyizing footage of something you've never seen live, are either:

A. In denial.
B. Believe you're being patriots by working to promote a falsehood in order to protect American military and promote American defense.
C. Working to promote a falsehood in order to protect Obama.
D. Vastly overrate your analytical abilities.

You have provided quite a lot of information about the psychological aspects of disinformation techniques, but sadly, zilch about the missile launch.

[Finny]

Names Ash lives in San Diego. Names Ash is a private pilot who has flow in L.A. area skies, but as far as I can tell, lives 225 to 260 miles south-east (150 miles EAST) of Vandenerg's missile launches. NAH repeatedly claimed "I LIVE here!" when attempting to establish bona-fides with regard to empirical experience watching missile launches and seeing airline contrails. But "here" is the Los Angeles area, NOT 90 miles south-east in San Diego. NAH mislead people into thinking otherwise. NAH is no more familiar with L.A. area's nightly skies than L.A. residents are familiar with San Diego's nightly skies.

MANY of us have lived our entire lives within 25 to 160 miles of Vandenberg's launches and have watched them with binoculars as well as the naked eye; we have also watched hundreds of airplane contrails with the naked eye and, in my case personally, with binoculars. It is why I can state with 100 percent certainty that at the range the video was shot, there is ZERO possiblity that the cameraman was confused. ZILCH. If you want to argue that the cameraman told bold-faced LIES in his interview, go ahead, but you won't be able to explain how he managed to manipulate the lighting in the video to make an east-bound horizontal contrail look like a north-west bound vertial plume. And you have people working overtime to convince your lyin' eyes and three-dimension-perceiving brain that you saw otherwise, while simultaneously appealing to your ego by praising you as "calm" and "level headed" for allowing yourself to be so bamboozled.

You want to talk about a conspiracy/cover-up of epic proportions? You're witntessing it in the most bizarre layers of self-deception one can imagine -- in the gullible folks who won't believe their lyin' eyes or hear the warning of people actually familiar with the area and the phenomenon.

[Names Ash Housewares]

Dude, your whacked.
Aircraft FLY to other areas.
Do you NOT understand that simple fact?
This is the SECOND time I have attempted to explain that to you.

The SECOND time explaining something so obvious a small chld can understand it.

LA airspace is as much my backyard as San Diego or Palm Springs, or Imperial Valley. Getting it???

Ate the Buffalo burgers on Catalina Island many times.
Can I have gotten any closer to the contrail area then that?

Hell I have spent tons of time in Santa Monica on the ground where my TV show editor friend lives as well. watched Vandenberg launches from there. Not that you need to be there, you can see them from San Diego in early stages of the launch.
I saw the launch just days before the contrail from here!

Getting it yet!

Probalby not. LOL

You can attempt to discredit me but you have no examinable supporting data to offer.

It was a UPS jet dude.

Deal with it.

That is the factual reality.

We have tons of data to examine right on the net that point directly to the UPS jet as source.

It really is the nail in the coffin.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJwQNdadIv4

He offers ALL the sources for the data.

http://contrailscience.com/

How the the hell do you explain away multiple camera angles ALL lining up with the UPS flight track perfectly as contrail source object? Including weather satellite?

You cannot.

It was a UPS jet.

And this whole thing is falling into the foaming at the mouth conspiracy types on the internet now, where it belongs.

It’s done and done.

UPS Jet.

End of story.

End of line.

[Names Ash Housewares]

Spin this...

All the camera agnles including satellite line up perfectly with the UPS Jet as source.

The sources of his data are given so you can check them.

See for yourself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJwQNdadIv4

[Names Ash Housewares]

“I absolutely, positively, without-a-doubt agree with you fellow tribesman. It is amazing that we believe the government is too dumb to tie their shoes, but can simultaneously pull off a conspiracy/cover-up of epic proportions.”

I’ve run into the mindset before all too often.
People needing to believe something so bad there is no way offering examinable data makes any difference.

You watch, that youtube vid is extremely well put together, done with software tools we all have access too, done with data that is public and easily found and sources provided.

Yet it won’t make any difference to some.

It reminds me very much of moon landing hoax whackos.
Same deal.

[Names Ash Housewares]

Brian Webb runs a website that follows Vandenberg launches.

I have subscribed to his launch email alerts for many years.

I think it is safe to say he is an expert on observing them.
So discredit me all you like.

You will have to discredit Brian Webb as well.....

http://www.spacearchive.info/

As of this morning, I would like to end any further discussion of the mystery “launch” reported on the evening of November 8th. I have determined that what was seen that evening is not a mystery and it was not a launch.

Also, please do not send me any further e-mails on this subject.

There has been speculation on the Internet that the event was a missile launch from a Chinese submarine.

If a foreign power covertly entered the waters adjacent to the U.S. mainland and launched a missile, it wouldn’t necessarily be an act of war, but it would be a major provocation. A provocation of that type could actually backfire by increasing U.S. fears over Chinese naval power in the Pacific. That could lead to a build up of the U.S. Navy’s anti-submarine warfare capability.

During the Cold War, the U.S. Navy was able to locate, track, and if necessary, kill Soviet ballistic missile submarines at sea. As a matter of fact, U.S. attack submarines (subs designed to hunt and kill other subs) reportedly would lurk submerged and meet up with Soviet subs shortly after they left port and follow the Soviet subs undetected for extended periods of time. Furthermore, land-based and carrier-based U.S. Navy anti-submarine warfare aircraft such as the P-3 and S-3 could also detect, track, and kill Soviet submarines.

It is reasonable to assume that the U.S. Navy has at least a partial ability track the movements of Chinese submarines. Furthermore, U.S. early warning satellites and radars (such as PAVE PAWS radar at Beale AFB in northern California) provide the U.S. military with the ability to immediately detect, pinpoint, and track missile launches at sea. The Navy probably also still has a formidable anti-submarine warfare capability that would allow it to quickly locate and kill hostile submarines.

Therefore, I think the assertion that the event of last week was a Chinese weapons test to be highly unlikely.

Again, please do not send me any further e-mails about the supposed mystery launch.

Brian Webb

[TigersEye]

What image is faked? That’s the first I’ve heard that. Other than all the Con-trail nutters claiming that the Sky2 video is faked.