Glenn Beck: They’re lying to us about the mystery contrail

Hot Air ^ | 11/19/2010 | Right Scoop

[JohnKinAK]

Glenn Beck said today that he has spoken to military experts about the mystery contrail from a few weeks ago and he says it’s definitely not a plane, but rather a two stage missile. He just wants to know where it came from, and he has a theory. Beck postulates that this missile was possibly from a Chinese sub off the coast of California, perhaps as a show of force to the world, but even more so to President Obama.

Click link for video

[TigersEye]

I never said anything about any Chinese subs or Chinese missiles.

[aruanan]

You can see spread in the contrail that coincides with the cloud layers at different altitudes.

Those clouds where the spreads occur are not at different altitudes relative to each other though each is at a different height from the bottom of the picture. It's a matter of perspective due to distance, just as in the second picture those dark clouds are at a lower altitude than the brightly lit ones below it though they are higher up on the photo because 1. they are not typical high altitude clouds like those in the distance and 2. they are much closer to the observer (as evidenced by the fact that they are, as is the observer, already in the earth's shadow, as the other clouds at a farther distance and greater height are not).

[aruanan]

I never said anything about any Chinese subs or Chinese missiles.

Geez! Did I say that you said anything about anything Chinese? An unsuccessful attempt to divert from the point.

[Rokke]

"You mean like this shuttle launch video where it appears to be going pretty slow and the contrail is twisted, broken up and widening fairly fast at the base in less than two minutes?"

Cool video. You realize it was filmed from 38,000ft and in just over 30 secs the space shuttle had climbed well above the altitude of the aircraft from which it was filmed (and didn't slow down from there)? And while the contrail was twisted, it was never broken that I saw, and the last time the base was shown (35 secs after launch) it hadn't widened at all. For that matter, the exhaust trail of the largest missile we launch remained very narrow and distinct during the entire length of the video. Nothing like the contrail pictured off California.

[TigersEye]

Those aren’t high altitude clouds in the distance either. Far from 39k ft high.

[TigersEye]

Geez! Did I say that you said anything about anything Chinese? An unsuccessful attempt to divert from the point.

No, that was obviously your point in bringing it up since it is irrelevant.

[Rokke]

"That’s not a horizon line that’s where the ocean in the foreground of the pic on top meets the haze."

Hmmmm. Where the ocean meets the "haze" is...the horizon. Or is the haze so dense that it describes a perfectly straight line across the extent of the visible ocean? And I see that same line in both pictures. It's in the second. Just harder to see.

[aruanan]

But is completely absent in the satellite pic of the same contrail.

When was the satellite pic taken and from how far away? Distance and resolution (look at Doris Day close-ups) can obscure otherwise readily apparent details. If is the same contrail then the explanation for what is apparent as a detail in a photo taken from a relatively closer vantage point that does not appear in another photo must lie in the differences in conditions between the two photo sources. And please don't start in a Barney Fife-toned explanation of, "Well, we all know that military satellites can read the cancer-warning on a pack of cigarettes from an altitude of 90 miles so they should have no trouble at all with something a big as a contrail."

[aruanan]

No, that was obviously your point in bringing it up since it is irrelevant.

Read the opening paragraph of the post.

[TigersEye]

Near the very end of the video he pans down for just a second and there is a huge break in the contrail. Here are two more shuttle launch videos that show just how fast the contrail can expand and distort even on a dead calm day. They also show how different a contrail from the same vehicle can be on two different days.

Real Sound of Space Shuttle STS-117 Launch, 3 miles

BEST SOUND OF A SHUTTLE LAUNCH! STS-117

Found another shuttle launch video where you can "see" it break the sound barrier if you want to see it. It has no relevance to contrail appearances.

[TigersEye]

I thought horizon was where ocean or land meets the sky? In the first it kind of looks like that. I can’t say that it looks that straight to me. In the second if that’s the horizon there must be a thousand foot tsunami about to hit the coast. That’s much too high from that perspective to be an ocean horizon.

[Sto Zvirat]

And yet, you still have zero proof of a missile. Just a bunch of CT’s saying “that sure looks like a missile”

Will you ever have any evidence?

[TigersEye]

The sat pic was taken at 5:30 PM PST one minute before UPS 902 crossed Catalina. It is the one the NASA expert used to make his case for an airplane contrail. You would think if there was so much difference in the widening of the contrail from the ground it would still be evident in the sat pic.

And please don't start in a Barney Fife-toned explanation of, "Well, we all know that military satellites can read the cancer-warning on a pack of cigarettes from an altitude of 90 miles so they should have no trouble at all with something a big as a contrail."

I generally don't do that until someone else starts that kind of thing with me. So, since you started that with me ...

[TigersEye]

Read the opening paragraph of the post.

Yes, I caught the smart ass innuendo in the first paragraph. And the second paragraph.

[Rokke]

"Near the very end of the video he pans down for just a second and there is a huge break in the contrail."

If you are talking about the break at 1:40 into the video, that is actually a cloud layer. Not a break. You can see the shuttle fly through it at :42.

The other shuttle videos were filmed at 3 miles or less from the launch point. The audio from the launch is intense. But the spread of the exhaust at ground level is less than a mile wide and barely high enough to cover the launch tower. I'm not sure how far out people who believe a missile was launched off the coast of California believe it was launched, but the spread of the trail starts above the haze layer you've been talking about, and extends for miles to the south of the trail. Nothing at all like the exhaust from the solid rocket boosters and main engines of the largest spacecraft we've launched in decades (if not ever).

And I found the sound barrier break. Very cool.

[aruanan]

Those aren’t high altitude clouds in the distance either. Far from 39k ft high.

Their appearance is more typical of higher altitude clouds than not. And they are at a relatively high altitude because they are still brightly illuminated while everything else out to the horizon is in shadow. The displacement between the two bands is due to distance between them east versus west not to altitude.

[TigersEye]

I wasn’t putting them out there as exact comparisons. No one has done that with either a missile contrail or an airplane contrail. Just as examples of how fast a missile contrail can expand and distort. At about 1:40 - 1:41 there is a big break in the contrail right above the wing of the plane. It only lasts a second because he moves the camera.

[TigersEye]

We'll just have to disagree about that. I don't think they look like high altitude clouds at all. Yes, the different bands of clouds are separated east to west but they exist in different atmospheric layers that extend across the sky.

Face it, your explanation is as reasonable as mine and there is no way to prove either one with certainty. It's a stalemate.

[Rokke]

"Just as examples of how fast a missile contrail can expand and distort."

But that expansion and distortion is a function of how far from the contrail you are. If you are a 2-3 miles away it is going to seem like a lot is happening within the contrail. If you are 30 miles away, it is going to seem a lot less distorted. The pictures below demostrate near to far views. How far away do you think the trail filmed in the CBS video was?

That last picture is the after affects of STS-117, which was the shuttle in the first Youtube video you linked.

[TigersEye]

How far away do you think the trail filmed in the CBS video was?

That is really hard to say. No doubt it would be a huge missile contrail however far it was. Anyway, here is video of a trident missile gone wrong. It shows a corkscrewing contrail very well and the contrail near the surface expands rather quickly.

Trident II launch goes wrong

Most shuttle launches and missile tests are done under optimal conditions. Can the effects of all types of weather conditions be accounted for in the pics and videos we can find on the net?