Posted on 11/20/2010 11:34:24 PM PST by JohnKinAK
Glenn Beck said today that he has spoken to military experts about the mystery contrail from a few weeks ago and he says it’s definitely not a plane, but rather a two stage missile. He just wants to know where it came from, and he has a theory. Beck postulates that this missile was possibly from a Chinese sub off the coast of California, perhaps as a show of force to the world, but even more so to President Obama.
Click link for video
The key to the analysis it the timeline analysis on Rick Warren's images. Gil Leyvas's video is portrayed as a fast moving ballistic event that headed out away from the mainland US. The LAX webcam and Rick Warren's images show that the object was heading inland. The timeline of the stills show that it was far too slow to have been a ballistic missile launch. If it had been then the missile would have been long gone.
If CBS has shown the full unedited tape it would show that the formation of the contrail and events after would have been far too slow for a ballistic missile.
Nice effort.. but, I have concluded that some people just WANT to be 'nuts'.
If the left were smart enough (which, they're not) to dream up something like this to discredit us, they couldn't have come up with anything better.
I can't believe Beck is caught up in this... sad.
IT WAS AN AIRCRAFT.......
........ THAT FIRED A MISSILE!!!
Coincidence??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Expertise and facts are not welcome guests on these conspiracy threads.
Aircraft contrails can be misinterpreted. As an aviation photographer I've seen several airliner contrails that have produced the 'ballistic characteristics'. They can be completely misinterpreted. The key is the speed and perspective when viewing them.
Here are two examples of aircraft contrails that have caused missile flaps in the US.
Stop quoting Doug Richardson. Jane’s Missile and Rockets have since retracted their initial assessment.
Study the LAX webcam. Which way was the trail heading? According to CBS is was going away from the mainland. The still and webcam show that this object was heading towards the US. Explain how Rick Warren was able to keep this boosting missile in frame for the length of time? The key to this is at CBS with the full unedited footage.
And some other *expert* will come and have an opposite opinion. I don’t know any of you so, it’s impossible for me to decide who to believe. And that’s all this is now, a game of who do you believe. I haven’t actually seen ANYONE’S credentials, only them saying what they are. And every last one of them may be telling the truth for all I know. But, after years on the internet you can color me skeptical of virtually everyone. I am completely in the middle. I only watch these threads because I am interested in the direction they always take.
That reminds me, I need to get a couple more cases of water socked away. ;)
From Gil Leyvas interview
"Well, I realized that it was something that we saw earlier from the week before -- we saw something very similar the past Thursday, and immediately I realized that it was something very similar, and called on the 2-way there to our assignment desk to let them know that we were seeing it again. It's not as dramatic as the one from yesterday -- the one from yesterday was pretty spectacular. Like I said, it was growing in nature and continued to fly up into the sky, and at one point it seemed to separate. The smoke or the plume seemed to stop and then continue further up in the sky and then finally disappear."
UPS902 using a McDonnell Douglas MD-11 flew the same route/time on the 4th from Honolulu to Ontario, California. I wonder if Gil Leyvas still has film from 4th November as it might just put this whole event to rest? Was Gil filming the UPS MD-11 on 4th November at sunset?
From 4th November - UPS902. I had to register to view so possibly the link won't form? Details recorded have the 4th November flight arriving at Ontario (KONT) at 18:05 PST. On the 8th November UPS902 arrived at Ontario (KONT) at 18:02 PST.
Link to UPS902 tracklog 4th November
8th November for comparison.
Link to UPS902 tracklog 8th November
I've served in the military and I'm now an aviaton photographer. I've witnessed ballistic missile launches and I've also seen how airliner contrails can be misinterpreted. Misinterpreted from perspective, the lighting conditions at sunset and sunrise and also due the type of aircraft involved.
The type of aircraft is important here as the likely candidate is UPS902. This was a McDonnell Douglas MD-11.
Apologies for those who are aware of this type, but it requires to be highlighted that this is a three-engined airliner. Under certain atmospheric conditions the MD-11 can produce a unique and blended contrail. On the 8th November according, to Dr Patrick Minnis of NASA, the conditions were right for a persistent contrail leading to a non-persistent contrail as the aircraft headed inland.
Thx for the honor of being able to.
Link to MD-11 non-persistent contrail
Watch the following video from the 0:40 point. Note how slow this footage is when it is claimed to be a ballistic missile? Consider that this is the point where the MD-11 goes from producing a persistent contrail to a non-persistent contrail? Dr Patrick Minnis has already stated that the conditions favoured this type of contrail formation.
Why all the concern about new posters on Freepers? Some of the Freeper threads on this debate have been re-posted and linked on several busy Internet military interest forums discussing the subject.
Military Photos defense forum, Above Top Secret and Keymags publishing forum for Air Forces Monthly magazine. It is an interesting topic and being defense related has obviously generated a lot of intrigue. Lots of individuals want to have their say!
I'm an aerospace engineer from the Cold War days, which is all I'll say about my credentials.
And, since you're claiming that conclusive evidence exists, please share it with those of us who are basking in ignorance?
What have they got to go on? The FAA have already stated that nothing was there that shouldn't have been. They also stated that there had been no reports from pilots. Do you not think that pilots would have observed this claimed huge great vertical plume and reported it? That is why perspective comes into play here.
Any pilot viewing that trail (contrail) would have seen it as horizontal. No pilot has reported seeing a vertical plume. It was misinterpreting perspective that made many cry missile!
Did CBS provide the military with the exact position of their helicopter? If not then all the military have is a edited CBS video to view. A video that just looks like a ballistic missile launch. Nothing unusual on radar, nothing reported by pilots or ground observers. Why didn't the LAX Air Traffic Controllers in the tower report anything unusual? They would have seen the exact same contrail that appears on the LAX webcam. Nothing unusual but a persistent contrail from an MD-11. No reports from mariners and no reports from the Islanders off the coast. The crew of UPS902 are probably having a good laugh at the hype surrounding the ballistic missile stories?
Serving in the military (retired) and flying on air-refuelling tankers and transports I've seen numerous examples of this. From certain angles the reflections can be quite spectacular.
The following videos are examples. Absolutley nothing remarkable about witnessing such reflections off airliners. As you can see from the videos such reflection and glare could be mistaken for a rocket plume or booster at the head of a trail/contrail. At sunset what color do you think that reflected light is going to take coming off the fuselage of an airliner?
Link to video showing airliner reflections - Optical Tracker
Link to video showing airliner reflections
As an aviation photographer I've also witnessed the effects of reflection and glare from airliners at distance. Also consider that the CBS video snippet is edited and slowed down for effect? The truth is in the full footage rather than the edited snippet shown by CBS.
“And, since you’re claiming that conclusive evidence exists, please share it with those of us who are basking in ignorance?”
Basking? At this point it appears that most of the missile folks are wallowing in it.
The evidence has been presented in every thread. There are some pretty talented folks putting it together. But lets take the basic timeline. Since you are an Aero, you know how slow that missile would have to travel to get from the point of the Chinese Submarine, to, say, 400,000 feet in the 8 or 9 minutes that the contrail, um, I mean, missile trail was being created.
But really, I am mostly being rhetorical. The easy explanations don’t excite the conspiratorially minded, and you would not be the first self-professed expert to have embarrassed himself over this issue - without even knowing they’ve done so. I’m just sorry you didn’t at least get an opportunity to do it on TV like the other guys.
Why is this subject so important to you that you expend your energy insulting others about it?
I guess I'm going to have to dust off the old slide-rule. :(
Then how come you do not see it all the time everyday? What special weather conditions were taking place, that has NEVER happened before?
Guess what I know a lot of current pilots (military and commercial) that say without doubt it’s a missile. They were among the first people I asked what they thought about this incident. They all said the same thing!
You and the federal government are the only people/group I know that are saying it’s an airplane. And I know the governments record on truth. LOL!
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