Posted on 07/21/2010 4:55:08 AM PDT by EBH
The nrst guarantees nothing - it’s only a law.
The law includes defunding the IRS. The law includes the destruction of all existing income tax records [save the records of individuals delinquent at changeover.] The law erases from existence the income tax code.
I think that’s heading in the right direction.
Just a point of accuracy.....the chicken barter comment was made by Sue Lowden, not Sharron Angle.
How can you insure a Flat tax won’t be manipulated? Flat taxes still require you (and businesses)to file the evermore invasive income filings, detailing every source of revenue and expenditure. None of the governments’ business! Flat taxes still tax behavior that we want to encourage (earning, saving, & investing). Flat taxes leave the IRS with full power.
The Fair Tax is ONLY levied on NEW items at point of CONSUMER purchase. It does not tax earnings, savings, or investments. Does not tax used items or used property. Does not require you to file any earnings report. Does not steal money from your paycheck before you see it. It cuts the IRS by 90%, with their activity being directed towards verifying business sales tax filings.
Fair tax also neuters politicians, since they cannot give state or federal tax credits to corporations in exchange for support.
Please look into the Fair Tax more thoroughly before dismissing it.
They don't want you to:
Did you really think we want those laws observed? said Dr. Ferris. We want them to be broken. Youd better get it straight that its not a bunch of boy scouts youre up against... Were after power and we mean it... Theres no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there arent enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? Whats there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on guilt. Now thats the system, Mr. Reardon, thats the game, and once you understand it, youll be much easier to deal with. - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged 1957
L
national ID for any transaction.
no national ID number? they no soup for you.
ahh the fair tax scam.
you never mention the prebate. IOW a eventual living prebate where every government registered and approved family is allowed the government mana.
The actual language of the proposal is so intrusive in all transations that the fairscam is just another variation of this 1099 proposal.
Obama is essentially having a fire sale, but you don’t even have to pay anything to get the goods.
He is destroying this country and its economic system and handing out what’s left in the burned-out building to his favored groups.
About 2/3rds of the cost of any product or service comes indirectly or directly from government. If we got rid of all welfare, all tax credits, all subsidies, all grants, and any other form of hand out and then stripped government regs down to the bare essentials we would not have the average person paying at least 1/2 of the money they make to the Feds, State, and local municipalities.
The IRS will not be eliminated but reduced significantly as you have conceded. Either way money needs to be paid to the government in a manner that acts as reward for it not being overly regulating or tyrannical and irresponsible with the money that comes into their coffers.
If you have a national sales tax, which is what you are proposing, as the only means to tax individuals and businesses make it no more than 10 percent max. The Feds could take 5 percent, the State 3-4 percent, and local municipalities 1-2 percent.
But do really think that the control freaks in the District of Criminals will go for such a great idea? Not in a million freakin’ years because they are a bunch of con artists, criminals, thugs, control freaks, sharks, wolves, and snakes. Until people recognize that, nothing positive is going happen to change that.
People are starting to wake up and smell the hot coffee of this fact. The trend I see is more and more people are doing so and becoming active and trying to do something about this problem. If something isn’t done you can see America turning into a North Korea or a North Korea with Islam as its state religion.
The Fair Tax rate is actually steeper; it's 29.87% when stated in the same manner as virtually all sales taxes are (what is often called the "exclusive" rate.)
That is, if you buy a watch that is priced $100, you give the clerk $129.87 in total. (There's a long discussion here about the Fair Tax.)
That’s higher than I expected but government doesn’t come cheap these days!
And what is to stop them from jacking it up higher to say 50 or 60%? Some one has to pay for those COLAs and pay raises the politicians are entitled to!
Yes, it is very high for a retail sales tax.
I have seen speculation that the proposed rate could be cut significantly if there were no prebate in the Fair Tax plan.
Rent an apartment.
1099!!!
Prebate? What is that???
There is nothing to stop them, since any tax law can be changed --- just look at our current mess. It's the handiwork of literally tens of thousands of legislative adjustments to the original income tax legislation.
Everyone in the U.S. would get a check from the government every month under the Fair Tax proposal.
That check is called the "prebate". It ostensibly refunds the amount of the minimum Fair Tax that an individual would spend in the next month to maintain one's self at the poverty level.
Ohhhhhh! Prebate is just another word for subsidie, welfare check! I think people forget that when you get money from the government along come all the strings that bind you into slavery.
It’s like in the movie “Blade Runner” where in that universe the word for executing a Replicant was called “retirement.”
Yes, it's clearly a subsidy. It subsidizes the putative amount of Fair Tax that one would have to pay to maintain one's self at the poverty level.
I believe that you would inevitably start hearing calls to "means test" this subsidy, just as you now hear about Socialist Security.
Here is the paper work reduction act info. The paper work reduction act is to estimate time and COST, but in doing interenet search, I can find not reference to costs of doing forms. Their est is 16 minutes for the form, hell, that is no, no one returns your calls for this info, my guess it is an hour per form.
Privacy Act and Paperwork Reduction Act Notice.
We ask for the information on these forms to carry out the Internal Revenue laws of the United States. You are required to give us the information. We need it to figure and collect the right amount of tax.
Sections 170(f)(12),199, 220(h), 223, 408, 408A, 529, 530, 6039, 6041, 6041A, 6042, 6043, 6044, 6045, 6047, 6049, 6050A, 6050B, 6050D, 6050E, 6050H, 6050J, 6050N, 6050P, 6050Q, 6050R, 6050S, 6050T, 6050U and their regulations require you to file an information return with the IRS and furnish a statement to recipients. Section 6109 and its regulations require you to provide your TIN on what you file.
Routine uses of this information include giving it to the Department of Justice for civil and criminal litigation, and to cities, states, and the District of Columbia for use in administering their tax laws. We may also disclose this information to other countries under a tax treaty, to federal and state agencies to enforce federal nontax criminal laws, or to federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies to combat terrorism. If you fail to provide this information in a timely manner, you may be subject to penalties.
You are not required to provide the information requested on a form that is subject to the Paperwork Reduction Act unless the form displays a valid OMB control number. Books or records relating to a form or its instructions must be retained as long as their contents may become material in the administration of any Internal Revenue law. Generally, tax returns and return information are confidential, as required by section 6103. The time needed to complete and file the following forms will vary depending on individual circumstances. The estimated average times are:
1096 13 minutes
1098 7 minutes
1098-C* 18 minutes
1098-E 7 minutes
1098-T 13 minutes
1099-A 9 minutes
1099-B 20 minutes
1099-C 10 minutes
1099-CAP* 11 minutes
1099-DIV 18 minutes
1099-G 11 minutes
1099-H* 18 minutes
1099-INT 13 minutes
1099-LTC 13 minutes
1099-MISC 16 minutes
1099-OID 12 minutes
1099-PATR 15 minutes
1099-Q 11 minutes
1099-R 18 minutes
1099-S 8 minutes
1099-SA 8 minutes
3921* 11 minutes
3922* 12 minutes
5498 24 minutes
5498-ESA 7 minutes
5498-SA 10 minutes
W-2G 18 minutes
* Privacy Act does not pertain to this form.
The issues are separate, tax on one hand spending on the other. I am all for cutting spending back to the constitutionally allowed roles of the government. It is amazing to think about how much we have tread on the constitution and how much of what our government does is on the wrong side of that.
My argument for the fair tax stands whether spending is cut or not, HOWEVER, I think the fair tax will encourage voters to hold their representatives to account for the crazy spending. By seeing and feeling the whole tax load on every purchase, people will be more apt to get angry. Right now many don't see all of the money that they pay. They don't see the increased cost of products due to corporate taxes. The Fair Tax will not increase what you spend on taxes, but will make it painfully obvious how much we have been spending to support these clowns and freeloaders.
With regards to them not going for it, they better get the clue fast. We must gather our forces, convince our friends, neighbors and families and DEMAND that they change it. IF we gather a majority of people that want these changes, but the politicians ignore our demands, they must go. By election preferably, but ultimately the government must represent us or it is our duty to change it. I think if you looked into the FT a bit more, you might come to my side, but we are already on the same side with regards to spending and the position on our out of control government.
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