Posted on 06/07/2010 10:44:56 PM PDT by april15Bendovr
Marijuana is causing America to be more and more dysfunctional. Its time we recognize that we have a problem.
Educational info on marijuana
It’s trouble and our country could do without it.
OK. That means that pretty much anyone who knows the difference between propaganda and education will know not to trust them, yes?
And you didn't respond to any of my points. Even if you can make a rock-solid case that marijuana harms people, does that mean it should be banned?
So are you talking about legality, regulation or access?
Your talking sounds that way to me too. Try sending something besides a hollow ring, something “substantive” would be a good choice. Anyway always good to part on a note of agreement.
How about explaining why you conservative drug warriors treat the Commerce Clause the same way liberals do for things like Roe v. Wade? Give it a shot.
Do not send your grandson any info from that list of “marijuana is evil” articles.
From his point of view it is going to have the opposite effect. Just like that movie, “Reefer Madness”. (a ridiculous movie on the evils and horrors of pot)
He probably knows many classmates who use pot only occasionally, and are doing quite well.
If he is a bright and stable young man, he will already know not to abuse any substance.
None of those are legal OTC. Alcohol is, although there is an age restriction. Since the availability is restricted, those drugs (and some more than others) have a significant black market associated with it. All because they are restricted. Not to mention saying that drugs like meth and cocaine are legal is rather disingenuous, since both are rarely prescribed.
Meth, one of the amphetamines was once used until a drug very close to it came along, methylphenidate, a.k.a., Ritalin.
Disingenuous? No, not at all since when calls are made for legalization what is really being asked for is societal approval for the users choice of use.
What produces a “black market” is the desire of people who will feed their appetites regardless the cost, to themselves or others.
If you open up a facebook account you can link right from here.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=322308606937
Societal approval is not the same as legal, or vice-versa.
Salvia, a rather powerful nasty sort of drug, is perfectly legal in most states. Yet it is hardly accepted by society. Heck, it’s hardly known by society.
And it is disingenuous to call cocaine and meth legal drugs when their black market usage is overwhelmingly greater than their legal usage.
What creates a black market is legality. Be it from trading in a product that is completely illegal, or trading in what may be a legal product (cigarettes for example)to avoid a heavy taxation on said product. A black market is just like any other market in a capitalistic society. The product has demand, and someone goes and fills that demand. Since when does there have to be someone getting hurt in the ordeal? If floormats were banned and I bought one from the black market floormat dealer, who is getting hurt?
At this level nobody will want to smoke it anyway because it wont produce the high they desire. Check out this transcript.
HOUSE CALL WITH DR. SANJAY GUPTA
Interview of Dr. Drew Pinsky
Aired March 5, 2005 - 08:30 ET
CNN transcript
GUPTA: Let's get to another e-mail on topic here. Tracy from Texas wants to know, "How addictive is marijuana when compared to heroin? How about when compared to tobacco and alcohol?"
Dr. Pinsky, marijuana's the most commonly used illegal drug.
PINSKY: Yes.
GUPTA: And there's a perception that it's not dangerous and not really addictive.
PINSKY: Right.
GUPTA: What's the comparison?
PINSKY: Let me -- I'm -- it would take too long, I think, to compare to each of those drugs. The fact it is addictive. And it seems to be an opioid mechanism, very much like heroin, very much like the Percocet you just had in the previous piece.
GUPTA: Right.
PINSKY: And the marijuana, I should go through the syndrome, because it's the same in all people. It's someone with a family history of alcoholism about 85 percent of the time, who initially doesn't think much of pot, but somewhere on the third or fourth exposure, as though there's some priming effect on the brain, they suddenly get this intense euphoria. Oh my God, I love this stuff. And that is what they preoccupy about.
From that day forth, they will use every day for somewhere between one and 30 years. During that time, the effects will wear off. They'll start getting depressed. They'll smoke more to try to compensate. And they'll slip into a depression.
At that point, they either come to treatment or they switch to another drug. Typically, amphetamine.
GUPTA: That is remarkable.
PINSKY: And amphetamine reverses the depression. So most of my amphetamine addicts and nearly all are actually marijuana addicts for whom the marijuana stopped working.
GUPTA: Initially they were marijuana addicts and now amphetamine. Really interesting stuff. We're talking with Dr. Drew Pinsky.
Interestingly enough Dr. Drew is for legalized pot.
I state a fact and you call it disingenuous based upon some pulled from air standard you've chosen. I explained it to you in the simplest terms I could muster and you persist in this “disingenuous” nonsense!
A black market is not like any other market, particularly in the illicit drug market. That's why it's called “black”.
“Since when does there have to be someone getting hurt in the ordeal?”
When the production and distribution is largely controlled by predicate criminals who are willing to murder competitors or anyone else who might interfere.
Ah, but the profits attract the criminals you might say. So legalization is going to turn the cartels into garden clubs?
Sure it does and anyone who buys from them knows for a fact that they are financing the murders and maiming that took place to feed their appetite for a buzz.
All the more reason to reduce demand.
“If floormats were banned and I bought one from the black market floormat dealer, who is getting hurt?”
The guys shot and tossed down a mine shaft who tried to sell floor mats too. Of course if the mats were rubber the blood might wash off pretty well and no one would ever have to think about it.
If you are referring to DR. Drew's Web MD remarks that is not at all what he is stating.
I used to listen to Loveline every night when I worked the swing shift on my old job. He stated numerous times that it should be legal on there. That being said, this was the closest article I could find that stated it:
http://www.iowastatedaily.com/articles/2000/08/27/pulse/20000827-archive0.txt
Dr. Drew also addressed what is often seen as a taboo subject - the legalization of marijuana. “Go ahead and legalize it,” Dr. Drew said, to the cheers of students. Dr. Drew went on to explain that the country was still using a law dealing with “illegal” drugs that dated back to the early 1900’s. “To say that it [marijuana] is worse than alcohol or other drugs is ridiculous,” Dr. Drew said.
However, another link I found said that he said it should be “almost” legal. I’m not sure what that means to be honest:
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=53888&page=4
I think we should almost legalize it and then have a rational discussion about it. General prohibition doesn’t seem to work. The Harrison Act of 1919 needs to be revisited, based on our most current scientific understanding of addiction and abuse. There should be no moral issues infused in these, it should be based on the clinical realities.
You stated that societal approval was called when people ask for legalization. That statement isn’t necessarily true, since there are many things that are legal that are not acceptable by society. Tobacco is still legal and is increasingly less acceptable by society each year/decade. I’d wager the pot smokers don’t give a damn about societal approval. They care about not getting arrested and having a wider variety of access to their drug.
If you don’t see why your statement was disingenuous you are incapable of thinking rationally. You called cocaine a legal drug. The only time it is a legal drug is in the extremely rare case when it is prescribed. The vast overwhelming market for cocaine is the illegal market. If you can’t see that reality then I don’t know what to tell you. There’s a reason nobody thinks of cocaine as a legal drug, despite the fact that there are probably 5 people out there with a script for it. Why are thousands of Mexicans bringing kilos of a “legal” drug over the border every month?
And a black market is like any other market. It’s called “black” because it is a market that is done underground. It follows the same basic principles and supply and demand laws that any other market follows. It’s probably closer to pure capitalism than any other market out there.
If you point is that the black market uses violence to control ares of the market, no crap, that’s what those of us who believe in legalization have been saying forever. If your other point is that these guys aren’t going to turn into law abiding great people if drugs are legal, who cares. You’ve cut a huge supply of their income potential out. Even if a thief wants to steal they can’t steal if the store is empty.
Good luck reducing demand and trying to guilt users into saying that their use by saying that their use is fueling murders and such. For one thing, it’s not them. It’s the government policies that are fueling the murders. The alcoholic isn’t fueling murders when he goes out and buys Jack Daniels, because there is no black market for that product. For another, people just don’t care for the most part. Not even with legal products. People in this country buy all sorts of crap from China that’s made with child labor under deplorable conditions. Walmart is as busy as ever.
Do you think they should be able to enact such a program under the Tenth Amendment without fedgov interference? Or do you think fedgov should try to shut it down under authority of the Commerce Clause?
The CDC has said that more U.S. teens are now smoking marijuana than smoke cigarettes.
The war on freedom needs to end. Let’s all cheer for CA and perhaps they’ll unwittingly force SCOTUS to roll back the commerce clause and Wickard.
I don’t really care about the politics of California pot. I care more about the healthy growth of adolescent brains and parents actually being there for their children when needed instead of being in a constant drug induced stupor.
If people were more educated on the topic including negative effects and consequences then why would we ever need government to get involved?
Smoking marijuana= the dumbing down of America should never be interpreted as smoking marijuana= “oh no” grow larger socialist government.
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