NATO to meet Tuesday on Gaza flotilla raid by Israel

The Economic Times ^ | May 31 2010

[worst-case scenario]

BRUSSELS: NATO will hold emergency talks on Tuesday at Turkey's behest after the deadly Israeli raid on a flotilla of aid-carrying ships bound for Gaza, spokesman James Appathurai said.

"Planning is underway for a meeting... at the request of the Turkish authorities tomorrow afternoon," Appathurai said. The talks will gather ambassadors from the 28 NATO member countries at its Brussels HQ.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters in Santiago, Chile, that his government was demanding the NATO council gather to address a crisis that has already seen Israeli counterpart Benjamin Netanyahu cut short a visit to Canada and Washington where he had been due to meet with US President Barack Obama on Tuesday.

[Hardraade]

I just try to give you the impression of the ordinary people in europe!

Really? I can assure you that there are people in EU who will happily blow any islamist away just for the good of mankind.

So where in Europe are you from, for shure??

[DoughtyOne]

It's quite obvious that I am a strong supporter of Israel.  That does not preclude me from wanting Arabs who desire peace, to be financially successful and live happy healthy lives.

After World War II, many Jews returned to the area where Israel, the West Bank and Gaza now exist.  They purchased property and did what any people do, they worked and sought to prosper.  As the presence of Jews grew, there was objection.  This led to strife between Arab and Jew.  This escalated to the point that even elementary schools housing Jewish children were taken over.

It was a bad situation.  Something had to be done.  The result was the partitioning of the territory.  I don't think either side was particularly thrilled with the outcome, but what else was there to do?

Israel was recognized as a Nation by some.  The Arab side decided to put their eggs in the basket of demanding the partitioning be reversed.

Since that time, the Arabs have focused on that one thing, destroying Israel and taking over the whole area.  This wasn't limited to the people living on the West Bank and Gaza.  Syria, Egypt, and other players in the region sought to take Israel by force.  By then (1967), Israel was able to defend itself, and since then nobody else has tried it again.

During this time Israel granted passes for people living on the West Bank and Gaza to enter it's territory to work.  As this continued, acts of terrorism did also.  Even as this took place, a significant portion of Arabs remained within Israel's borders, experiencing a decent life, living side by side with the Israelis.  And this example, is what a lot of people fail to think about.  This is the model that could have been adopted instead of the partitioning, if only everyone had been amenable to that.  The two peoples could have lived side by side in peace, each prospering.  Israel is in effect, the proof of that.

Those calling themselves the Palestinians, were given quarter in Jordan.  They were given quarter in at least one other nation, that escapes me for the moment.  Sadly, these people were expelled from those places, as they plotted against those governments.  It wasn't just the Israelis that these people developed problems with.  The Arab states don't offer these people safe haven.  They know what that would result in.  They've seen it, and they don't want any part of that.

So what is Israel to do?  The Arabs having put on display what willingness they have to live in peace, demand from Israel the right of return.  They made many other demands as well.  And in 2000, they were given almost everything they wanted.  Some have described it as 97% of what they were requesting, but I don't know precisely what the break-down was.  It seemed that outsiders were pretty unified by the concept that peace was close at hand, that Israel had bargained in good faith and had given in on things most people had never expected them to.  And then Arafat refused the deal, dropped out of the negotiations and declared an intifada.

Over the last sixty-two years, terrorism has been utilized against Israel, European nations, the United States, airlines, cruise ships, and even Middle-Eastern nations.  Kenya and other African nations have had problems.  To one degree or another, it all stems from the refusal of the Arbas on the West Bank and Gaza to live in peace.  Now I grant you, a lot of action is taken and then blamed on that strife, but it isn't all carried out for that reason.  Still, it is carried out, and most of it is blamed on that, and some of it certainly is carried out for that and no other reason.  In the late 1960s, the Israeli Olympians were attacked in Germany.  Has Israel reacted in kind?  When Israel's aircraft was hijacked and taken to Entebe, did Israel exact a toll on the Arabs in the West Bank or Gaza?  Did they after the Olympic massacre?

Has Israel been conducting terrorism on an international basis?  Has Israel's press depicted Arabs as lower life forms, dogs or monkeys?  Has Israel's press openly advocated that all Arabs should be destroyed?  Has Israel targeted Arab coffee shops or Arab women and children on the street?  When Israel retaliates, does it focus on places where large groups of Arabs congregate like shopping malls or other businesses or entertainment events?  The Arabs have done all this against Israel.

Has Israel supported proxy groups that have focused on Arabs to kill them?  Has Israel armed any groups that are anti-Arab?  The Arabs in the region have done that very thing against Israel.  The PLO, Hezbollah, and Hamas are each proxy terrorist groups, focused on destroying Israel from the vantage point of relative anonymity.  Arafat, Abbas, and others spent their entire lives dedicated to taking down Israel.  And in the case of Arafat, he went so far as to divert billions of funds provided for the Arabs by the U.N., Europe, the European Union, the United States, and even Israel, placing it into his own private European bank account.

What Israeli or Jewish person or group can we point to that has done similar things against the Arabs, or has abused funds provided to help the Arabs?

Those who want to live in peace with Israel, are not allowed to push that idea.  If Arabs on the West Bank or Gaza openly advocate that, they are strung up.  Constantly Israel has to put up with terrorist activity, and the movement to utterly push it's people into the Mediterranean and destroy it (and them).  Israel reacts to this on occasion, but if it wanted to, it could simply annex the West Bank and Gaza and be done with it.  If it wanted to, it could slaughter everyone on the West Bank and Gaza.  Instead Israel actually gives relief funds to the Arabs, food stuffs and supplies, and arms it's police, so that they can maintain some semblance of order.  And yet, those guns are turned on the Israelis not all that infrequently.

If Mexico were firing a number of rockets into my nation each day, I wouldn't find that to be acceptable.  If the Arabs on the West Bank and Gaza do it to Israel, I'm at a loss to understand why they think Israel wouldn't object and take military action from time to time.

Right now Syria has once again set up a massive supply base in Southern Lebanon just above Israel.  And within a year or so, we'll probably have a repeat of the military action that took place three or so years ago.  This time Hezbollah has scud missiles that can inflict some serious damage on Israel.  This is going to get very ugly.

As I said, I'd like to see the Arabs on the West Bank and Gaza be successful, and live in peace.  Evidently that's never going to happen.

I can only say that the people who have refused peace wherever they have been allowed in, and have tried to kill Jews for over sixty years, and have refused to focus on the success of their own people's lives, are very hard for me to sympathize with.  If they would put 1/1000th the effort into becoming a successful nation as they have put into trying to destroy Israel, you and I wouldn't be addressing this problem any longer.

You take care.  I'm not going to give you a hard time for your stance.  I just felt compelled to explain mine.

Later...

[darkside321]

Really? I can assure you that there are people in EU who will happily blow any islamist away just for the good of mankind.

So where in Europe are you from, for shure??

---

Sorry but what has muslim immigration to do with the fact of Israel? Do the people of europe hate that we are overun from muslim immigrants? Well definitely shure!!!
Me too. Do politicians care? Well this is a different fact. But this has nothing to do with the state of Israel.

Well i´m from austria (but before someone calls me a nazi because of Israel let me tell you that i´m only 31 years old :-) and i have been born in the US but i spend my whole live in europe (i gotta love this dual citizenship :-) so forget it.

[SJackson]

Is boarding the ship headed for their territorial waters

During a blockade imposed at a time of armed conflict, no.

Relevant links

The Gaza flotilla and the maritime blockade of Gaza - Legal background from the Foreign Ministry [Israel]

Ministry of Foreign Affairs 31 May 2010 - distributed May 31, 2010 5:18 PM

A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. It has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza.

1. A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.

2. Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.

3. A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral states.

4. The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blockade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirement of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.

5. In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla. Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect.

6. Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above.

7. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.

8. A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.

9. Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.

10. Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were relayed directly to the captains of the vessels, expressing Israel's intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade.

11. Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.

12. Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protesters and acted in self defense to fend off such attacks.

San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994 , my bold

SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.
68. Any attack on these vessels is subject to the basic rules in paragraphs 38-46.
69. The mere fact that a neutral merchant vessel is armed provides no grounds for attacking it.

[Pox]

Aww, he’s not gonna learn anything if you do his homework for him! :)

[mainsail that]

Ireland does not agree with your legal reasoning at all:

Martin: Irish citizens ‘kidnapped’ in international waters

Monday, May 31, 2010 - 06:09 PM

The Minister for Foreign Affairs has accused Israel of kidnapping Irish citizens in international waters.

Micheál Martin is furious after Israel announced it would deport all foreign nationals seized from a convoy of ships carrying aid to Gaza.

Israel launched an attack on the flotilla overnight, killing at least 10 people and wounding dozens more.

Seven Irish passport holders have been taken to the Israeli port of Ashdod from where it is planned to deport them. One has already signed papers agreeing to the move.

But Minister Martin said he has told the Israeli Ambassador Dr Zion Evrony that the Government wants these Irish citizens released immediately.

“The Israeli government requires people to sign papers so that they can be deported,” Minister Martin said. “But of course these people did not enter Israel illegally.

“They were essentially kidnapped from international waters, taken into Israel.. And now they are being asked to sign a document almost confirming that they entered illegally.

“And we think that is unacceptable.

“I have said this to the Ambassador - it makes no sense. These people should be released unconditionally.”

The Israeli Ambassador defended his country’s actions.

Dr Evrony said he is neither ashamed nor embarrassed by what happened, but he stated that he would convey the views of the Irish Government to his country’s government.

He made the remarks after meeting Minister Martin at Iveagh house this evening.

Dr Evrony said he did not belive relations between Ireland and Israel had been damaged.

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/martin-irish-citizens-kidnapped-in-international-waters-459870.html

[SJackson]

They don’t have to, they can go to war over the incident if they like. Wars have been fought over these things. And people have been thrown in jail here in the USA, perhaps not Ireland, for providing material support for designated terrorist groups. Personally, I think those 7 Irish passport holders should be denied future entry to the USA, same as Cat Stevens.

[mainsail that]

They don’t have to, they can go to war over the incident if they like. Wars have been fought over these things. And people have been thrown in jail here in the USA, perhaps not Ireland, for providing material support for designated terrorist groups. Personally, I think those 7 Irish passport holders should be denied future entry to the USA, same as Cat Stevens.

So it's as simple as declaring a blockade and saying you're right, is it? Basically Israel made Turkey look good, listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MUXxLerFsY

Can we agree that Israel does not want a war with Turkey, a NATO member with a modern military, over some rice and used shoes? Imagine what would happen if Turkey went to war with Israel over 9 dead Turks and some boarded ships. Turks are no Arabs when it comes to fighting and US is a NATO ally, by treaty. That's why I think Israel screwed up, it can get complicated, and the Israeli response will only help ease the embargo.

The material support was, at least technically, for the people, sort of giving an Afghan family a sack of grains when we're at are with the Taliban.

[Bean Counter]

Nonsense.

The Lusitania was not running a blockade, and it was torpedoed, while none of these vessels were. Your comparison has no merit.

This flotilla was about breaking the Israeli blockade and nothing else. Israel offered to bring the aid in under their supervision and these “activists” declined the offer because they wanted a bloody confrontation.

[SJackson]

Can we agree that Israel does not want a war with Turkey, a NATO member with a modern military, over some rice and used shoes? Imagine what would happen if Turkey went to war with Israel over 9 dead Turks and some boarded ships.

The issue to mainsail that is "used shoes and rice", but unless you're rabidly anti-Israel or a complete moron, you know the Israeli blockade is to prevent importation of arms. Which are used to kill Israelis. Important to Israel, not important to other nations, including, I presume, Turkey. All the ships had to do, being properly, legally notified, was submit to an inspection. The used shoes and rice would have gone to Gaza, the blockade runners would have been deported. That's been known for weeks. A reasonable person might wonder why that was unacceptable. The obvious reason, acknowledged by the flotillas sponsors, is to but the blockade, so Hamas can "import" whatever they want.

BTW, since the invasion of Iraq I don't entirely share your clear affection for Turkey as an ally. But no, Turkey isn't going to war with Israel over this, the Turks aren't morons. They need Israeli arms.

[ChinaThreat]

Somebody needs to remind the Turks about the refusal to allow the 1st Cav and the 4th ID entry during the Iraq War. The Turks are becoming more radicalized. It ain’t your father’s Turkey anymore. They need to be thrown out of NATO if they seriously expect it to act on this provacative act by itself.

[GRRRRR]

So it’s OK for North Korear to torpedo a South Korean ship, did the UN security council get all wee wee’d up?

[Maverick68]

Israel’s patience is mind-boggling.
The world attacks them, and they continually try to find peaceful solutions.
I hope soon they find the courage to wipe the ragheads that threaten their existence off the planet and prosper greatly with their newly aquired oil wells...

[DoughtyOne]

Great post... Thanks.

[worst-case scenario]

Turkey now syas that it will continue sending “aid ships” protected by Turkish naval vessels. This can turn into a big mess right soon.

[Bean Counter]

That what we need is the Turkish Navy to show up and start shooting at the Israelis. Any word if the Brazilian Navy will be joining them for convoy duty??

There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. This whole thing is fiction meant to break the Israeli blockade and get weapons into the hands of Hamas.

Turkey has decided to be a player all of a sudden. I think they take that temporary seat on the UN Security Council and themselves a bit too seriously...

[mainsail that]

I don’t like the ‘New’ Turkey but unless we withdraw from NATO or chase them out they are our allies, see NATO Treaty. So if Turkey and Greece say that Israel attacked our ships (thus us) what does America do, disband NATO or help them?

No one in the West would mind to have the day-to-day aid checked for arms and military equipment for the lunatic Hamas, but I just searched Google and I’m wondering why is chocolate banned? Or shoes until a few months ago?
Allowed “Canned meat and tuna, but not canned fruit
Mineral water, but not fruit juice
Sesame paste (tahini) but not jam
Tea and coffee but not chocolate”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8654337.stm

“With small exceptions for international aid projects, raw goods vital for trade and construction are banned. A biscuit factory cannot import margarine, and a tomato paste factory cannot bring in empty cans. While fruits, vegetables and frozen meats are let in, fresh meat, vinegar and jam, are not, said Sari Bashi of the Israeli rights group Gisha.”

“Some items have now been allowed to enter after being banned for years, like clothing, shoes and tea, providing the surreal sight of gleaming, expensive boxes of Israeli-imported caffeine-free blueberry tea sold alongside knocked-around boxes of tunnel-smuggled black tea.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9xMQeXMiJB1691P4ttjJBiib6UwD9FVPS5G1

It just makes no sense, other than to pressure the people into voting Hamas out. But Hamas is still there and pressure is on Israel not Hamas. This blockade run was obviously to bring attention to that and Israel fell for it. I cannot find one single nation that defended Israel, just condemnations all over the world. How is this helping Israel?

[SJackson]

Save the BS about chocolate arms. Everyone knows this is about Iranian arms, including the Turks.

America can attack Israel for enforcing a legal blockade if they wish, I wouldn't hold my breath. In fact, don't hold your breath for Turkey or Greece to attack either.

Israel is far better off enforcing the Gaza blockade than they are in the north where Israel depends on the UN led by France to enforce an internation arms embargo.

[hennie pennie]

Don’t miss this VERY informative posting by SJackson over here.

[hennie pennie]

*ping* - another great posting