Posted on 05/24/2010 8:44:47 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW
LONDON (AP) - Britain's top medical group on Monday banned a doctor whose research suggesting a link between a common vaccine and autism caused millions of parents worldwide to abandon the shot for measles, mumps and rubella.
Dr. Andrew Wakefield was the first to publish peer-reviewed research suggesting such a connection, even though the study was later widely discredited. The ruling by Britain's General Medical Council found him guilty of serious professional misconduct.
Wakefield, 53, then moved to the U.S. and set up an autism center in Texas, where he has a wide following, but faces similar skepticism from the medical community. The ruling in Britain only applies to his right to practice medicine in the U.K., not in other countries.
(Excerpt) Read more at apnews.myway.com ...
Your posts would lead a rational person to believe that you do. Maybe you're just incredibly nuanced. Maybe you don't want to answer the question. Maybe you don't know what it is you believe. The fact that you posted this article and posted what you have would lead a normal person to the conclusion that you have indicted vaccines as causing autism.
See post 58. I had a very enjoyable conversation with MrShoop. You on the other hand want to be nasty because I may disagree with anything that you say.
So we are done.
Even though you won't admit it directly, it is obvious that you believe this to be true. This belief makes you irrational because you buy into something that cannot be proven. Because some folks here call that irrational behavior, you get your panties in a bunch. But you still won't answer the simple question.......
You created confrontation by being nasty in several posts and insisting that posters said things they never said.
This belief makes you irrational because / you get your panties in a bunch.
This is confrontational. No one wants to discuss a subject with someone that's nasty. I stated what I believe. You can't accept it.
So now you get the last word which will make you feel you're right. I'm leaving. Have a good day.
“So you can’t offer anything specific as to why you find these journals unworthy of your trust? Just as I thought.”
Actually, I said it would depend on the journal.
“You suggested earlier that you had the knowledge and experience that qualified you to judge the references offered by Wikipedia as insufficient. You don’t. That....”
To be specific, I did not suggest or even elude to such a thing. You’re welcome to revisit my previous comments. Now, it would appear you’d LIKE to believe your assertions are correct, but they amount to smoking mirrors and slight of hand tricks.
“...call people names like...”
Pot, meet kettle.
“How long does one need...”
Depends on the number of factors.
Who knows? One thing I would look into though is the backgrounds of Autism scientists and activists. Is it possible that more children are being diagnosed because of an inflated definition of autism?
So they want to give people extra mercury? Why? Have they cornered the market on mercury? Does mercury give them extra profits somehow?
In the Autistic children that nurses and physicians had in their own families, when tested they had way over toxic accumulation in their brains of heavy metal such as aluminum and mercury
Do you have a source for this claim?
Falsifying data tends to ruin your reputation.
Actually, you didn't. Here's what you said in post #79 The references are not sources I would place much trust in.
You never explained why they weren't worthy of your trust. Now you're backtracking and saying it depends on the journal. Ok, I gave you four references in post #92. Which of those four are untrustworthy and why? Try and be specific.
By saying The references are not sources I would place much trust in, when responding to the Wikipedia references I offered in post #27, you more than suggest that you are somehow qualified to judge whether or not those sources are legitimate and present sound scientific evidence. Why else would you have commented by saying you wouldn't place much trust in them?
Either you can comment on the specifics of those sources, which you appear to be familiar with, or you can't. If the former, please respond to my question. If not, why not just admit that you're unqualified to be commenting on the veracity of my sources and move on?
In the future you may want to consider the possibility that a noob might possess more knowledge than you on a particular subject and shouldn't be ridiculed for having such knowledge.
Really? Since when?
I think you are thinking of 40 or 50 years ago. It is only ruined if your results deviate from what pharmaceutical corporations and governments allow you to print.
And in my book, any claims of "falsification" by people who are twisted in their thinking like the progressives are suspect! They lie, cheat, and perjure themselves whenever they open their mouths.
Wakefield may have falsified data....I wouldn't know. But I do know that I would never trust drug companies in these cases when they do so much behind closed doors and have been caught numerous times lying, selling contaminated products, etc.
Our zero government doesn't lie and frame anyone, either, huh. They would NEVER try to destroy anyone's reputation who disagree with them.
Given my choices, I will side with Wakefield every time. Like I say, MAYBE he did screw something up, but it was NOT the conditions of the children, and the chemical findings. It is more logical to conclude that injecting KNOWN toxins (and many are in vaccines) into small bodies will result in some negative things. It is illogical to think otherwise.
Since they caught this guy.
It is only ruined if your results deviate from what pharmaceutical corporations and governments allow you to print.
Is that how this guy spread his lies for 12 years, because the all powerful drug companies crushed him unfairly?
Wakefield may have falsified data....I wouldn't know.
No kidding.
But I do know that I would never trust drug companies in these cases when they do so much behind closed doors
Like multi-million dollar research?
Our zero government doesn't lie and frame anyone, either, huh.
They lie all the time. What does that have to do with this fraud finally being exposed?
Like I say, MAYBE he did screw something up
No doubt there.
but it was NOT the conditions of the children, and the chemical findings.
What chemical findings?
It is more logical to conclude that injecting KNOWN toxins (and many are in vaccines) into small bodies will result in some negative things.
Like preventing disease and saving lives, yeah, that's terrible.
Like I say. I didn't hear the "evidence". Were you there? Was it fabricated evidence? Really? Do you think the judge was bribed? I heard about Wakefield only when I read his article in The Lancet magazine, many years ago for a class. Hardly have heard anything about him except when drug companies are trying to shut people up when scientists say there "may" be some truth to the Autism/Vaccine connection. Then THEY cite his "fraudulent" study and yadda yadda yadda. They never argue the facts. That is so suspicious, it reeks, don't you think?
Yes, BTW, I do appreciate some of the things the pharmaceutical companies have done. I have relatives in the medical field. I am NOT anti-vaccine. Yes, they have done some wonderful things, no doubt. BUT, there needs to be transparency on this vaccine issue. I don't understand why you get so angry when all I am saying is that there are too many vaccinations given to little babies. They are guinea pigs and you must know it deep inside because you are so agitated.
Take for instance the Hep. B vaccine. I think it is absolutely evil to inject that poison into babies that have no infected mother. That would be extremely easy to determine if the mother had Hep B. Yet, over 90% of babies in US have NO threat of that disease, unless they are indulging in unprotected sex, injecting themselves with drugs, etc. INSANE!!!!(But of course, the more people being injected (even when you don't need that extra poison leaching on the tiny little brains that are SOOOO vulnerable to any toxin!!!) the more money the drug companies make.
They give THREE injections of not needed CRAP into the babies within a few months of life. I think it is criminal. Absolutely criminal to inject known substances that will knowingly harm them. If they need the shot in later life, fine--if they decide they need it.
There have been doctors who have had their own children come down with Autism and their tests have shown outrageous amounts of aluminum and mercury in their brains. Urine samples after vaccines are full of toxins--some children are better able to excrete the poisons--the ones who can't, get brain damage. OK, I'm oversimplifying but you get the picture. It is easy to google any of the information. Weigh it and I think you will agree with me.
Another thing. NONE of my babies got the Hep B vaccine (5). None of them ever had flu vaccinations. None of them ever had Chicken Pox Vaccinations, etc. etc. They are all healthy young adults. None were autistic or had ANY learning disorders and garnered not only academic awards, but athletic ones. They were all reading at an early age. Do you think that would of happened if I had added 5 more vaccinations in their first few years of life? I think NOT! Why? You are putting known harmful toxins into their little bodies at a crucial time of rapid brain development when their little bodies are least able to excrete it.
“Actually, you didn’t. Here’s what you said in post #79 The references are not sources I would place much trust in.”
Post #88:
“That could depend on the scientific journal.”
I see you’re doing a little slight-of-hand here. Taking comments out of context. Not only is this out of context, you type an paragraph to try and pad your point.
“In the future you may want to consider the possibility that a noob might possess more knowledge than you on a particular subject and shouldn’t be ridiculed for having such knowledge.”
The only individual that has been ridiculing others on this thread has been you. No one else here comes close to your insults and ad hominem attacks. Here are some examples:
“Elvis is alive and living with aliens. Right?”
“These are not the actions of a rational person.”
“You, however, want to trust junk science and whatever conspiracies your imagination can fabricate. That’s your choice but these are not the kinds of decisions rational people make.”
“You’re a prime candidate to believe the moon landing was faked. Are you also a truther?”
“What happens when the idiots here choose not to vaccinate their kids and we have to once again deal with these diseases and the sickness and death they bring? Then will they be “something” to you then?”
“Grab a brain. Sheesh.”
“Do you know what a reference is?”
“You are so nuanced.”
“Then you are a Luddite who refuses to see...”
“Your posts would lead a rational person to believe that you do. Maybe you’re just incredibly nuanced.”
“...you get your panties in a bunch”
“...possess more knowledge than you on a particular subject...”
My comment was a response to the noob. I find your persistence in coming to the noobs defense as rather interesting. Perhaps you’re reaganairport.
Whatever the case may be, you were not interested in a civil dialog among Freepers. You were interested in personally attacking individuals who disagreed with your position.
I applaud everyone on this thread who did not feel it necessary to waste a worthy discussion on you.
Who works for the government or Merck? Be specific.
I didn't even intend to offend physicians or scientists who get a percentage of the profits from promoting drugs and vaccines to their patients.
Or physicians who fabricate data and don't disclose conflicts of interest?
Was it fabricated evidence? Really?
Yes. Really.
Do you think the judge was bribed?
What judge?
Then THEY cite his "fraudulent" study and yadda yadda yadda. They never argue the facts.
The fact that he only had 12 children in his study? The fact that he falsified elements of the manuscript?
BUT, there needs to be transparency on this vaccine issue.
If Wakefield had been transparent, think of the lives that would have been saved.
I don't understand why you get so angry when all I am saying is that there are too many vaccinations given to little babies.
Because you've shown so little understanding of the issue so far.
They are guinea pigs and you must know it deep inside because you are so agitated.
Liars getting children killed agitates me for some reason.
There have been doctors who have had their own children come down with Autism and their tests have shown outrageous amounts of aluminum and mercury in their brains.
I asked you for a source for this claim way back in post #107, did you have one?
NONE of my babies got the Hep B vaccine (5). None of them ever had flu vaccinations. None of them ever had Chicken Pox Vaccinations, etc. etc. They are all healthy young adults.
Did they get the MMR shots?
Damaging the BRAINS of our future generation is EVIL!!!!
Flaws in studies??????? Bribes and big pharma???YES!!!: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6890106663412840646#
http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/death.htm
Liars getting children killed agitates me for some reason. Absolutely, and the big pharma and ignorant doctors and scientist are covering up and lying to the public and knowingly damaging brains and killing baby and teenage girls and don't even get me started on the swine flu vaccine. What a joke!
How about vaccines killing babies and teenage girls????: http://www.rense.com/general57/ddee.htm
Yes.
And you think Wakefield is fraudulent-
Yes. So do the researchers who took their names off his study. And the doctors who banned him in England.
Did you ever find your link for the claim that doctors kids with autism had, " outrageous amounts of aluminum and mercury in their brains"?
Or are you running away from that one?
Did your kids get the MMR shots?
As I said, I am not anti-vaccine. I regularly read Louis Pasteur to my children growing up....they knew his name and what he accomplished by the age of two and he was one of our favorite heroes. By the age of three they were drawing rabid dogs.
Absolutely, they got the shot, but NOT in the unnatural toxic 3 in 1 combo. They were separated doses (don't the big pharma lose money on this more natural method) and given much later than they are now. They absolutely had no vaccinations in the first 6 months of life when they have no ability to prevent toxins from entering the brain.
Many people KNOW that the vaccines are poisoning our children and adults. Let's reduce the number of vaccines and continue to keep the mercury out and other dangerous adjuvants and the aluminum.
Did you know that my pregnant daughter was advised to take the swine flu vaccine this winter which not only had mercury in it but squalene--another little pharma dirty secret that they covered up after damaging thousands of Vets.
She researched the shot because her doctor was not aware of the ingredients. She went back and told her she refused to have mercury and squalene injected into her body when she was carrying a tiny human being very susceptible to toxins. They argued with her--yes a young mother--and tried to guilt her into taking it telling her horrible things that would happen to the baby or her. She may DIE!
It is a crime!Trying to inject her with KNOWN HARMFUL (just in case!!!!) toxins all because of a made-up lied-about "pandemic". All for money! Disgusting and extremely evil.
By the way, the baby not only traveled in the womb hundreds of miles being exposed to hundreds of people, but now is a happy, healthy baby. The mother is doing exceptional. Her baby acts exactly like all my children in their first months of life....sleeping well for their age and eating well. The baby has had no vaccinations yet but will get some as her body matures. But NEVER that Hep B one, unless she works in the medical field and only then as an adult.
You want people to have no freedom to decide what is best for them or their children. You want doctors and pharmaceuticals companies to decide and then government to force whatever it is the "professionals" and government decide. (Never in history has there been any governments or organizations who wants to sterilize (Holder) and kill off masses of people-- no, no, never).
Then you demand the right to inject into people's bodies (ultimate private property violation) whatever is deemed "best" knowingly injecting harmful ingredients, even if people decide that the risks are not justified. (Definition of fascism.)
"What if's" aren't relevant in a lot of cases, and again, if you want a free society, you can not have it. It violates everything this country was founded on.
You are talking about an "utopian" fascist world that has been aptly described in a book....A Brave New World.
Pharmaceutical companies need to educate the populace, not steam-roller them, into their views. Keep an open debate....don't silence people who disagree, debate them and don't do the Beck, Rush, Alinskyiting tactics with scientists who disagree.
Truth usually has a gut ring about it and people usually will come to the right decision for them and their children. That is why no transparency and secret meetings and keeping knowledge of lawsuits from the public are downright evil. Because they are NOT being transparent and DON'T argue the claims, they are extremely suspect.
Hey, here's a radical Jeffersonian thought for you: Pediatricians that recommend new-born infants get a Hep B shot without an infected mother, should be removed from the medical field because they have absolutely no understanding of toxins and babies brains and neurological diseases, or if they do they are knowingly causing harm to a patient.
Look up the Amish and Autism. Look up the symptoms of mercury poisoning and Autism--I did, and I would swear that the children fed contaminated fish were Autistic. They had same mannerism, same lack of connection with their loved ones.... Isn't that silly to think that there are a few powerful elites in the world that may be making money off of a very sick and dysfunctional society. Absolutely no motives there, is there. Power never corrupts and didn't the Founding Fathers say that governments were "good".
Actually, the Founders were geniuses and they said that governments were a "necessary evil". Did you forget that most important concept of theirs? That's why power was given to the people, not government and corporations. What do you not understand about fundamental rights--yes, that is also the right to be stupid and uninformed.
Hey, here's a radical Jeffersonian thought for you:
LMFAO...it was only a matter of time.
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