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No background check needed to fire gun on range (barf alert)
Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel ^ | 16 may 10 | John Diedrich

Posted on 05/16/2010 11:23:11 AM PDT by rellimpank

Juan Cardona-Marquez can't legally buy a gun. He can't shoot one. He can't even touch one without committing a crime.

So how was it that the 22-year-old Milwaukee man - who threatened his girlfriend and was later charged with armed robbery and a string of burglaries - was able to rent a .45-caliber Glock handgun from Badger Guns and practice his aim on the store's shooting range?

The answer lies in a little-known quirk of federal gun laws.

Gun stores must check the criminal background of anyone buying a gun. But no check is required if someone rents a gun to use on the store's shooting range. In fact, a background check is not even allowed for rentals.

Prosecutors say a felon or other person legally barred from having a gun is breaking the law by handling one and could be charged. But they need proof.

"They can go and play with a gun, handle it, fire it, even take pictures with it to intimidate other people and nobody is going to know about it," said Joseph J. Vince Jr., a retired supervisor from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

"If they have the gun in the store or out of the store, it is a danger to the public."

(Excerpt) Read more at jsonline.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; guns; rkba
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To: B4Ranch
I’ll bet that you crap your pants thinking that in 1967 anyone could order firearms out of a catalog and have them mailed to their home.

Jeez at the assholes on FR these days.

Listen, I am old enough to remember it. But if you cannot understand the position I was taking from the standpoint of being an owner/operator of a gun club range then piss off, and go take a crap in your hands. Renting guns to any thug off the streets in an urban area is just stupid. But if you are such a big shot, move to Atlanta, open a range on the east side, and rent away fool.

121 posted on 05/16/2010 9:58:12 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: Still Thinking
Entertaining discussion here from what I've read. I just wonder when sharp sticks will become lethal weapons and added to the instant check system to be able to purchase? Any real difference? Keeping guns out of the hands of felons or fruitcakes might be an admirable goal but in all likelihood, a fools errand. I does however make work for feral employees and allows them to harass the citizenry.
122 posted on 05/16/2010 10:10:55 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (You have just two choices: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!)
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To: spodefly

Just so that you have all the facts: Yes, Colored people (1967) could order a gun from the Sears catalog too. There was no 2nd Amendment restrictions as to skin color in those days.


123 posted on 05/16/2010 10:16:43 PM PDT by B4Ranch ("You cannot defeat an enemy you will not define.")
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To: B4Ranch

Oh NICE! The race card! Learn that from Nancy, did you?

You are an idiot, pal. Take a hike.


124 posted on 05/16/2010 10:22:07 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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Before people wet themselves over this stupid article, they should go to the local gun range and rent a gun.

Yeah, its pretty easy. BUT, the guns NEVER leave the range. They are passed to the range through a vault (like a drive up teller drawer.) The range officer takes the pistol and ammo to the position on range. They watch these folks like hawks—mostly because they are newbies renting a 1911 or .44 magnum.

I spend a lot of time at the range and the worst I’ve seen is some idiot shooting the ceiling downrange.

When they are done, they return the gun to the vault.

If they want to commit suicide, I guess they could. If they want to shoot me when I am not looking, I guess they could. If someone wants to take pictures, I guess they could.

But, for 99.999% of the renters the process is very controlled and safe.

I wish the roads around here were that safe.
I wish the cops arrest record was that clean.
I wish the local hospitals infection rate was that good.

There are a lot of things that can get you killed more often than someone going wacky at a pistol range.


125 posted on 05/17/2010 6:28:23 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (This nation, of the people, by the people, and for the people has perished from the land.)
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To: Brilliant

How about a background check to walk into any store selling guns? Anyone can take ammo in and load a gun they’re looking at.


126 posted on 05/17/2010 9:27:38 AM PDT by gundog (Outrage is anger taken by surprise. Nothing these people do surprises me anymore.)
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To: Brilliant

Law abiding gun owners do not profit from supporting further erosion of their own liberties, either.

You are proposing making the range owner responsible for the acts of someone else who breaks the law. How would it suit you to be charged with burglary because your neighbor broke into someone’s house?


127 posted on 05/17/2010 9:36:03 AM PDT by MortMan (What is another word for thesaurus?)
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To: Brilliant
We already have a law preventing them from buying a gun. Why should they be able to rent a gun if they can’t buy one?

The instant-check system, by law, can only be used to check somebody if he's buying a gun. The range is prohibited by law from being able to check if a person is a felon or crazy except in the circumstance of buying a gun. If they do not have the ability to find out a renter's status, then explain how they can refuse to rent?

The feds don't seem to want just anybody finding out the felon/crazy status of somebody.

128 posted on 05/17/2010 9:55:42 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: Brilliant
"Law abiding gun owners do not benefit from letting crazies and felons have guns."

Big, intrusive governments benefit greatly from labeling their opponents as crazies. It was SOP in the former Soviet Union.

129 posted on 05/17/2010 9:59:43 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Brilliant
My point here is that the whole thread is premised upon the notion that a felon ought not be subject to a background check...

That is not the premise of this thread - it's about civil liberties. It's not the function of the federal, state or local government to know when or how often a citizen shoots when they are NOT a criminal.

Do you feel comfortable with the government being able to make the case that you're crazy because you made one too many trips to the range for their liking? It's none of their business in the least. I don't even believe that Badger Guns should be turning over their records without a warrant. How many citizens are being investigated without their knowledge just because they now have a list?

If Cardona-Marquez was denied practice that day, who's to say that he wouldn't have gone out and practiced on some human targets? It wouldn't have been a crime to TRY and rent a weapon, would it? He'd have been long gone before the police got there, and besides, he'd already been arrested in March for carrying a concealed weapon.

He then burglarized six homes of more than $90,000 in jewelry and cash. Before the rental at Badger Guns, he robbed a jewelry store of $50,000.

But of course, the police and/or justice system didn't fail. No, no, of course not - it was the eeeeeevil gun range.

130 posted on 05/17/2010 1:16:52 PM PDT by scott7278 ("...I have not changed Congress and how it operates the way I would have liked." BHO)
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To: Dead Corpse
Felons and crazies don't have guns around people like me as they tend to end up DEAD.

How many felons and crazies have you killed? Or do you mean what you say theoretically?

131 posted on 05/17/2010 1:58:35 PM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz
How many felons and crazies have law abiding gun owners killed?

Not enough apparently.

132 posted on 05/17/2010 2:37:25 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (III, Alarm and Muster)
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