Posted on 05/10/2010 11:36:06 AM PDT by Mister Ghost
He did discuss COIN principles, which begin with "securing and serving the people." Not the American people, mind you; but local populations within and of the Islamic world. It is the disastrous vacuousness of COIN doctrine that it ignores the existence of Islamic culture, Islamic law, as I've written many, many times, but it is the disastrous vacuousness of COIN doctrine that now, by the general's telling, influences all US military thinking. Worse than thinking, however, is how COIN doctrine manifests itself in unconscionable rules of engagement predicated on "courageous restraint" as a means, COIN theory goes, to make them like us. Petraeus didn't talk about any of that, though.
Of course, the addled, PC attempt to make "them" like us -- which inspires these disagraceful ROEs -- is the other fatal flaw in COIN doctrine. In a COIN world, American military success rests on actions beyond American military control: namely, on a chain of hoped-for reactions to American actions by that all-important local "population." (This is why the surge failed in Iraq. US forces were successful in restoring security -- Part 1 of the surge strategy -- but the Iraqis failed, in Part 2, to react as the see-no-Islam strategy promised, with national reconciliation, becoming an ally in war on terror, etc.) COINdinistas, as Petraeis called them, see the world as a series of societies peopled by Gumbys who will bend to COIN will according to bulleted, flow-charted COIN plan.
(Excerpt) Read more at dianawest.net ...
Neo Isolationism in a post 09-11 world is even more an idiots strategy then original was in 1941.
She’s clear that she doesn’t like... something about Petraeus’s strategy. She never explains what it ought to be.
Is this trash supposed to be journalism? Even the NYSlimes doesn’t publish this crap.
He really is a dangerous phony. Remember also he called himself a “Rockefeller Republican”, and not 30 years ago—2 years ago. We don’t need any more of those anywhere NEAR the levers of power.
Hell, there’s a new medal being considered for “exercise of courageous restraint”! Un - effin’ - believable...the exercise of appropriate restraint by military members is called DOING YOUR DUTY.
Colonel, USAFR
Hell, there’s a new medal being considered for “exercise of courageous restraint”! Un - effin’ - believable...the exercise of appropriate restraint by military members is called DOING YOUR DUTY.
Colonel, USAFR
Like I said...
Colonel, USAFR
Sorry but when Ms West has to make up her own reality rather then deal in the actual facts she has all ready lost the argument.
Here is Counter Terrorism done the Know Nothing, never been anything Diana West way.
Americans: Yo, all you Afgainies. Now we know you all have been oppressed and terrorized by the Taliban goons for about 40 years so we came over here to show you a better way. So gather round and we are going to teach you this thing called Democracy. We want to teach you this cause we figure if we get can get enough of you following this ideology you will not follow the ideology that preaches it is a good thing to fly airplanes into buildings full of our Civilians.
Now the first things you need to learn is this part about the Rule of Law. Study the sub chapters on Innocent until prove Guilty, Trial by Jury, Right to Legal Representation and really important, the chapter on outlawing Cruel and Unusual Punishment. Ok, now while you do that, we are going to arbitrarily round up and kill any Afgainies who we think maybe have ever talked mean about us.
What? No we are not going to bother with any of that messy Democracy stuff cause we are at war. And according to our Holloweird Movie guide to Military Action flicks any time you are at war you can waste anyone who pisses you off for what ever reason you want any way you want to do it. According to Hollyweird, we don’t need nothing like proof or nothing we can just go wack that little freak down the street at the Mosque cause he pisses us off.
Evidence? We don’t need no stinkin’ evidence. Our action movie heros never bother with any evidence. In the Movie we watch on TV says we are just suppose to go kill him because he pisses us off so that what we want to do here. Now quit talking back and learn our lessons on Democracy.
Afganini 1. Hey Mahmoud, why are we helping these clowns?
Afgaini 2. What do you mean Achmed, they got rid of the Taliban!
Afgani 1. They did? Looks to me like they just took their place.
Afganini i 2. Well ya so?
Afgani 1. Well at least the old thugs were from around here. These guys are not only from out of town they are not even Muslims. We may has well have Muslim thugs if we got to have thugs.
Afganii 2. You right, time to join the Jihad!
That is what this what Ms. West's “Counter Terrorism doctrine as learned from watching TV dramas” would produce.
It is utter stupidity that historically failed everywhere it been tried from Napoleon in Spain to the Nazis in Eastern Europe to the Russian in Afghanistan.
Of course, forget trying to penetrate the Dinocons welded shut minds. They are too busy screaming their group think on Afghanistan at each other to actually LEARN anything about the place
"the general's recent comments echoing the Arabist narrative on Israel as the culpable driver of regional unrest."IMO, she has a pretty clear and undiluted view of inherent evil in Islam and the dangers of befriending its adherents.
Even though I can't point to a specific statement by West, I think she thinks (rightly or wrongly) that the whole concept of counter-insurgency/COIN is inapplicable when dealing with Islam...and this would put her at odds with many in our military.
If the guy had not been a total incompetent and bought the wrong type of fertilize, all those “ordinary Americans” would be corpses right now.
Past time the Do Nothing choir lead by people like Mrs West her owned up to the harsh truth. The reason we keep getting lucky has to do with the fact the the bulk of the highly trained Pre 09-11 terrorists are in graves in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Past time to man up and admit you were all wrong about Iraq from Day 1 rather then continue to scream this ignorant bile Ms West.
I stopped trying to reason with Paulbots a long time ago. All they do is repeat the lib talking points word for word.
I guess the next "General Betray Us" ad won't come from the left......
She gets it...Petraeus and his cohorts do not or will not.
Islam is an ideology that thrives in secular corporate cultures like this one...and stamping out its leadership in one place allows its shoots to emerge in another.
I think it’s fairly reasonable to say that the Petraeus strategy worked great under Bush, after several years of screwing around, post invasion. Under Bush, the ROEs were improved, and the troops were allowed to actually fight the enemy.
But it has NOT worked great under Obama. Under Obama the ROEs have been tightened so much that the troops aren’t allowed to defend themselves, and they are courtmartialed if they try to do their jobs realistically.
I don’t think Petraeus has mutated. I think he’s working under different leadership conditions at the top. And his hands are tied.
As for the suggestion about medals for courageous constraint, that was suggested by the NATO leader, a British general. The problem is, we’re already doing something like that, because that’s what Obama wants.
But on the other hand
As I understand it there were multiple things wrong with his bomb, not just the fertilizer type.
Otherwise I agree.
IOW, kill 'em all.
That just ain't gonna fly in America, at least not till after we've lost a city or two to smuggled-in nukes.
Does COIN always work? Of course not. Nothing always works. (Except of course for Roman/Mongol/Nazi methods, if you've got a sufficient superiority of force.) But COIN is the only thing that might work.
I've been a fan of hers for years. In fact, she sees things in the ME so clearly, I used to think she was Israeli (she's not).
You could make the argument that is(or was) the traditional method of the Muslims, and especially the Arabs. Until Saladin rose to power in the 12th Century and instated a more "ecumenical" rule after the 3rd Crusade, the Arabs - as a matter of course - would just kill every man, woman and child they came across when attempting to re-take Jerusalem. The Saracens exemplified this kind of barbaric and unforgiving behavior.
After Saladin's death, things returned to "normal" for the Arabs - back to their more barbaric ways. The Moors were a rather unsavory lot as well. Sure, the Nazi's get all the bad press, but as far as barbarism goes, they're in plentiful company, mostly with Muslims.
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