US Won’t Promise Won’t Shoot Down Israeli Planes

Israel National News ^

[jhpigott]

In a meeting with students at West Virginia University, a young pilot asked the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the U.S. Army, Mike Malen, to comment on rumors that if Israel decides to attack Iran, its fighters will need to cross Iraq's airspace to reach their targets. The U.S. military has described this airspace as ‘closed to flights’. If so, would American forces shoot down Israeli planes flying over Iraq?

Malen's reply: "We have a strong exceptional relationship with Israel. I spent much time with my colleagues in Israel. And so we have a very clear understanding of where we are. Beyond that, I just would not want to get into speculation about what might happen and who might do what. Frankly, I do not think it serves any purpose. I hope that the issue will be resolved in the way which will never have to answer a question like this. "

[GonzoGOP]

The Egyptians initiated the war when they blockaded the port of Eilat in the Red Sea on May 22-23, 1967. Just thought I'd make that correction.

Nice of you to end the discussion especially when you are dead wrong. Such high intelectualism is hard to reason with, but lets give it a try.

They didn't blockade the port they closed the strait of Turanm, that is inside Egyptian territorial waters. Under international law closing your own territorial waters to the passage of another nations ships is not a blockade.

Besides which the US and some of the western powers were planning to run a fleet through the strait to force the Egyptians to open the waterway. Had that been the only issue it could have been resolved with negotiations and international (not UN but US and British). They chose to shoot.

[rmlew]

Abrogating the ceasefire agreement of 1956, which allowed of Israeli shipping was an act of war.

[GonzoGOP]

Abrogating the ceasefire agreement of 1956, which allowed of Israeli shipping was an act of war.

No doubt, but my point was that Israel could have negotiated, instead they initiated conflict. This whole argument is about the phrase initiate combat. You can have Casus belli and not pull the trigger. The attack by Iran on the US embassy was a clear Casus belli between the US and the Iran. We chose not to shoot. That is a mistake we are still paying for. In the 1980s Cuba declared a no fly zone 200 miles from its coast. Since the US is only 90 miles away we had Casus belli for war on Cuba. We didn't shoot, instead we parked a fleet 6 miles off Cubas coast and dared them to do something about it. They withdrew their 200 mile claim. There was no shooting and everyone was glad for it. Just because there is a justification for war does not mean that there is a war, until the shooting starts.

The Israelis were completely and totally justified in launching the attack in June of 1967. But they did initiate combat.

[caww]

Yep!.....”The Egyptians initiated the war when they blockaded the port of Eilat in the Red Sea on May 22-23, 1967. Just thought I’d make that correction”......

[ASOC]

The IAF are good, but they are not gods.

THeyy fly American made planes, we understand EXACTLY what it would take to down an IAF.

WOuld we shoot?

DId the IAF kill Americans on board a ship?

Put another way

Shoot ‘em down, if they’re friendly, we can anyways apoligise, if they are bad guys, then we are ahead.....

[Repeat Offender]

Idiot. This was investigated three times! That's funny... that you put that. I referenced from a book and I'm an idiot. You can't read through a thread and see where I apologized FOUR times concerning the type of aircraft..........

And another poster stated it was aircraft from the 6th Fleet.

Did you bother to follow the discussion throughout the thread? Where some of what you "address" was discussed?

Did you bother to read anything beyond the first post? Did you comprehend that I refrenced a book and that this is what I based everything from; idiot?

Why do I bother?

No of course not, you just want to come here and show everyone what a hot shot you are and attack other posters personally.... idiot.

Tank guns against civilians? You are not even quoting the hack Bamford properly. His thesis is taht Israel attacked the liberty to hide a massacre of Egyptian troops. At no time did I QUOTE anything. I did say that the book said the Israelis used tanks against civilians.... which the book does say that. Idiot.

As far as I am concerned, someone at the NSA should have been tried for murder. But No Such Agency is never held accountable.

Yes, in the book (NOTICE I SAID IN THE BOOK?) he references the ship receiving orders (or misunderstanding orders; I'm sorry I am deployed and can't run to my book shelf to quote chapter and page for you) that put it too close to the war zone. If that was the case, then yes NSA is at fault too........ However, if you wopuld have read all of the posts and followed the conversation you would have seen my entire point was each country has to look out for it's own security interests first. INCLUDING ISRAEL.

[familyop]

Politicians...Neviim, Isaiah 18! ! If you were a US Air Force cadet at the Academy, would you join in mandatory prayer to Heysoos? Or would you leave the Academy?

Democrats, Republicans...same thing! The leaders of both do their part in preparing to attack Israel and to bring the world to come! And I've earned my American right in more than one way to speak and to abstain from the illegal act of fighting against our allies (re. soldiers' enlistment vow or oath) and to abstain from prayer that I believe to be polytheistic and pagan!

Disciples of Chr*st to Israel: Drop dead
http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-religion/1458942/posts

U.S. Presbyterians target five firms with Israel links
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1458765/posts

The Church Stares Into the Abyss (The dhimmitude of the Church of England)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1435084/posts

(Anti-Semitic) Anglican group urges Israel sanctions
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1430566/posts

Anglicans Call for Sanction on Investment in Israel to Uphold Justice
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1430772/posts

THE VATICAN AND THE STANDOFF AT THE CHURCH OF THE NATIVITY
http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp515.htm

Two United Methodist gatherings urge selective divestment from Israel (official anti-Israel United Methodist Website)
http://www.umc.org/site/c.gjJTJbMUIuE/b.886089/k.A105/Two_United_Methodist_gatherings_urge_selective_divestment_from_Israel.htm

world council of churches (WCC)
church & ecumenical relations
http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/ecumenical/index-e.html
"Among those churches which are not members of the WCC, the most notable is the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). Since 1965 a Joint Working Group (JWG), co-sponsored by the WCC and the RCC, has met regularly to discuss issues of common interest and promote cooperation. The group meets annually. One of the church and ecumenical relations staff members serves as co-secretary for the JWG and helps to coordinate contact between the Council and the dicasteries of the Vatican through the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. [And] . . . Though the Roman Catholic Church is not a member of the WCC, it is a full member of the Faith & Order Commission. The RCC also serves the team on Mission & Evangelism in a consultative capacity."

Bush on Israel: Heartburn for All
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1844641/posts

President Abbas asks Congress help to release PNA funds withheld by Israel
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1844647/posts

Bush releases money to Abbas
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1844646/posts

Rice: Better to have Hamas in power than in streets
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1733397/posts

Rice: Palestinians deserve to live free of ‘occupation’[at an event of pro-Palestinian group]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1717847/posts

US Supplies Fatah With Arms, Rice Decries “Occupation”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1718348/posts

Rice: Israel Must Withdraw from More than Gaza and Samaria
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1333354/posts

President Bush Calls for New Palestinian Leadership
The Rose Garden
June 24, 2002
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020624-3.html
"The United States, the international donor community and the World Bank stand ready to work with Palestinians on a major project of economic reform and development. The United States, the EU, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund are willing to oversee reforms in Palestinian finances, encouraging transparency and independent auditing."

Quartet Joint Statement
Summary
July 16, 2002: Text of a joint statement issued by the "Quartet" (United Nations, Russian Federation, the United States and the European Union) following their meeting in New York
[Document behind the link.]
http://europa-eu-un.org/articles/sk/article_1489_sk.htm
"The new international Task Force on Reform, which is comprised of representatives of the U.S., EU, UN Secretary General, Russia, Japan, Norway, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, and which works under the auspices of the Quartet, will strive to develop and implement a comprehensive action plan for reform."

...little more background material:

Rice: Israel Must Withdraw from More than Gaza and Samaria
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1333354/posts
February 1, 2005

Bush and Sharon disagree over Israel's future
Wednesday June 27, 2001
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,513410,00.html

Sharon presses Putin to drop UN resolution on road map
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1013908/posts
4 November 2003

Commencement Address at Boston College (Secretary Condoleezza Rice, Boston, Massachusetts, May 22, 2006. US Department of State)

Excerpts:

As a student of a Catholic high school, the Sisters of Loretta taught me, I am pleased to be at an institution of higher education with such strong and celebrated Catholic and Jesuit traditions . . . You see, I got my Master's Degree at Notre Dame. (Boos.) I acquired a passion for the fighting Irish . . . and my family has been college educated and Presbyterian ever since. (Laughter and applause.) . . . I wandered into a course on international politics taught by a Czech refugee who specialized in Soviet studies, a man who had a daughter by the name of Madeleine Albright. With that one class, I was hooked. I discovered that my passion was Russia and all things Russian.

Israel Asks U.S. to Ship Rockets With Wide Blast - State Department seeks to delay supply
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1681771/posts

Rice Calls for Israeli Restraint
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1665489/posts

US Supplies Fatah With Arms, Rice Decries “Occupation”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1718348/posts

US pressure prompts delay of [Israel’s] offensive (”We do not want escalations” - White House)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1680983/posts

U.S. Directs Criticism at Israel
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1680666/posts

Vatican Condemns Israel for Attacks on Lebanon
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1665678/posts

[Tweeker]

and the errant missile landed in Iran - dang I hate that!

[SoldierDad]

OMG!!!!! That’s just too funny - LMBO.

[Steve Van Doorn]

the question itself should tell us how bad relations have deteriorated. That is what scares me.

[Salem]

Yeah....

[Slings and Arrows]

Or somebody ****ed up monumentally. Mr Murphy takes no sides in war.

[Slings and Arrows]

Arab air forces don’t have much of a record against the IAF.

[Munz]

>Have a hard time picturing the USAF shooting down IAF aircraft . . .<

I am having a hard time picturing a CIC who would hinder free people in favor of repressive regimes .. a socialist running our country who would destroy the very free market that built and maintained this country. But it is happening.

[gogogodzilla]

So, wouldn't the real question be whether the USAF has any F-22s in the theater? Otherwise your post is irrelevant.

[cqnc]

24 hours before when it had been overheard broadcasting basically in the clear, IDF told DC move it or lose it. First Strike took out all antennae. When it didn’t leave? Quid pro quo.

[gogogodzilla]

I wonder if the US military forces in Iraq would suddenly have a training day on the one day that Israel decides to fly over.

With a big ol’ ‘whoops’, who’da thunk they’d attack on that day...

[GonzoGOP]

Quid pro quo (From the Latin meaning "something for something") indicates a more-or-less equal exchange or substitution of goods or services

Well if it is quid pro quo you are looking for we need some dead Israelis. That is after all the only fair and equal exchange.

We did something that was inconvenient to Israeli foreign policy and they responded by killing 43 Americans. Well sending their aircraft through US controlled airspace and getting us into a war with Iran where it will be US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan rather than Israeli troops that are going to take the bulk of the pounding is inconvenient to our foreign policy. Under your logic are you saying we should be allowed to first strike Israel and they shouldn't retaliate? Sounds like you are in complete agreement with the general's comment that started this thread. Thanks for clarifying your position.

[Rutles4Ever]

It isn’t even a remote possibility that the American military would disobey lawful orders from the President. The closest thing to this occurring is the military would just play dumb and not tell Obama that the planes were there. Even that scenario is a stretch.

How would they explain Israeli planes bombing Iran? They tunnelled under Iraq? I agree it's highly unlikely they would disobey an order from the President, so the last scenario (both sides agreeing it didn't happen) would be the likely outcome, with the fallout of possibly irreperable damage to Israeli/US relations.

[Jewbacca]

Yours was merely the last post on the thread when I posted!