Posted on 04/13/2010 4:38:14 AM PDT by Abathar
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Consumer Reports has issued a safety warning on Toyota's 2010 Lexus GX 460 SUV because of an increased rollover risk during a turn.
The magazine says it uncovered the problem during routine tests, and is urging car shoppers not to buy the GX 460 until this problem has been remedied.
The special designation given to the GX 460 by Consumer Reports -- "Don't Buy: Safety Risk" -- is rarely given by the magazine. The last time it was used was in 2001, on the Mitsubishi Montero Limited.
About 5,000 GX 460s have been sold in the roughly three months the model has been on sale, the magazine said. It advises current owners of this vehicle to approach exit ramps with caution, and to call Toyota demanding a fix for the problem.
The SUV's electronic stability control program failed to keep the vehicle in line during a severe handling maneuver, allowing it to slide almost completely sideways, said Douglas Love, Consumer Reports spokesman. That situation could lead to a rollover, Love said.
Electronic stability control (ESC) is a computerized system that controls the brakes and accelerator to help maintain vehicle control in abrupt maneuvers.
The problem with the Lexus' ESC system became apparent during tests designed to detect a specific emergency handling problem -- one in which a vehicle's back end slides outward when the driver lifts his foot from the gas pedal during a turn. The GX's ESC system did not become active until the SUV had already skidded dangerously, Love said.
(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...
I'm still trying to figure out how we all lived at my age before there were any computers, anti-lock brakes, airbags, or electronic stability controls in our cars.
Maybe we learned not to trust the car but to trust our driving skills more.
Who would have thought that a high profile vehicle just might be a roll over risk??? wow
Consumer Reports has an obvious agenda when it comes to SUVs.
Exactly.
And we were smart enough not to drive 75 mph on curvy back roads.
Nowadays, it seems like people do what they want in a vehicle because a voice in the dash does not tell them, “Danger. Your driving is about to cause your vehicle to roll over.”
You had Ralph Nader...
This is another bogus warning that Toyota will probably pay attention to out of fear.
The Lexus system is probably set a little less aggressively to allow just such a little bit of slide because that’s what Lexus drivers expect.
A lot of the folks who drive them seem to be clueless.
People are expecting a van-like vehicle to handle like a sports sedan. Uh-uh, will not happen.
SUV Rollover Accident and Death Statistics
Safe is a relative term.
Even as a teen I would read their reports and scratch my head. This bunch were way out in front on the ‘wrap us idiots up in cotton and keep us in a room free of sharp objects’ movement.
Their criteria are as laughable as they are impossible: every car must get 50 mpg, must have room for 6, must ride like Aladdin’s carpet, must never require maintenance, and must survive direct nuclear attack.
They have similar demands for microwave ovens, coffeepots, DVRs, etc. While some of us want as much variety and functionality as we can afford, CR often wants the equivalent of picture menus on everything since manuals and control panels may be ‘confusing.’
Sadly I know of many (including family members) who refer to CR as their ‘Bible’ (often without irony) and have made purchases that have no correspondence to their stated purchase objectives - only to complain later!
Am wondering how GM is doing with some of these field trials. . .
A "severe handling maneuver" ??? Well duh! It is an SUV, you cannot treat it like a little hatchback or a low-slung sports car, not even like your average coupe. Tall, heavy vehicles have some particular handling characteristics. One of which is they cannot be made to corner like a Mustang. ;-) Hey socialist government, don't you dare mandate that all vehicles be dummed down to the least common denominator. Some people want/need vehicles that can perform in snow, off-road or on unimproved roads, and other situations where you need more ground clearance.
The problem with the Lexus' ESC system became apparent during tests designed to detect a specific emergency handling problem -- one in which a vehicle's back end slides outward when the driver lifts his foot from the gas pedal during a turn.
That's a classic driver's mistake and it'll make just about any rear wheel drive vehicle severely over-steer (swap ends). Front wheel drives may be a little more forgiving owing to the slighting better traction (having more weight on the front wheels) but they'll tend to understeer (push out of a turn). If you're already pushing the limits of your tires' traction to the limit with cornering, adding drive force (accelerating or decelerating) can be what breaks them loose.
Anyone else wondering why it seems to be "beat up on Toyota" time lately? One of the best, most respected, most emulated car companies (heck, any kind of company) in the world? Seems awfully co-incidental that this is occurring now that obama, the 'rats, and their union supporters are running GM... No proof, but it sure looks suspicious.
SUVs roll more frequently than cars. So do pickups, though not as frequently as SUVs. Nothing suspicious about it. It’s the laws of physics combined with driver ignorance.
I’m sure CR loves Smartcars but they never get round to discussing the aftermath of an accident at highway speeds in those little crackerboxes...
I don’t like all the electronic steering stuff. I feel like i should be able to correct problems, and that the car is fighting me.
FWIW, I drive a crackerbox. For the driving I do, I feel safer in that than I would an SUV. Like I said, safe is a relative term :)
My Suburban has anti-lock brakes and I live on a long dirt driveway that can be traction challenging even at the best of times.
I can’t stand when I push on the brakes and I hear the buzzing sound while the brake pedal pushes my foot right back up.
If I want the damn brakes to lock up then that should be MY decision on dirt or gravel and not the fracking system under the hood, especially when I’m in 4X4 mode.
Load of crap. Lexus is the finest mass market vehicle on the market, period. The debate is over (ducks behind Algore...)
Seriously, this is crap.
This is part of systematic attack on the industry leader, most likely on behalf of the government owned GM. Amazing how the hits just keep coming on the Toyota organization, all within a 15 month period after the US government became a stakeholder.
Wouldn’t it be great if there was a vehicle that could carry the passengers of an SUV, yet had a lower center of gravity and car-like handling and mileage?
Oh yeah. We used to. They were called station wagons, and they were killed of by poorly written government environmental regulations that virtually created the SUV out of thin air as a consumer choice - another unintended consequence of government meddling.
Rollover risk of cars and light trucks after accounting for driver and environmental factors
Changes have been made to some SUV models to lessen the rollover risk, but they still have a greater risk of rollover than cars.
“The SUV’s electronic stability control program failed to keep the vehicle in line during a severe handling maneuver, allowing it to slide almost completely sideways, said Douglas Love, Consumer Reports spokesman. That situation could lead to a rollover, Love said.”
So, they didn’t actually get it to roll over. They don’t even say that it went up on two wheels.
And, they say it is the fault of the ESC for not working well enough?
Hmmm. Lots of SUV’s have been made in this country over the years. I’d say the majority of them DON’T have ESC. Are they rollover risks, too? Because I’m sure you could get any one of them to break loose at the back by lifting the throttle in a near-limit turn.
Recovering a tail-out situation is something that I learned when I was 8 and buzzed around on a wet lawn in my go-kart.
You don’t need traction control...Grandpa never had it, neither did Dad, and neither do I. Somehow after driving for years in rain and snow, none of us ever died in a fiery crash.
Anyone can learn to prevent such accidents through the use of a concept called “driving skills”. An easy way to learn car control(and have fun to boot) is to get in a big, empty, snowy parking lot and try to intentionally lose control. My Murano is all wheel drive, and with just the right application of throttle, you can do an easily controllable four wheel drift on snow, car completely sideways, steering with the throttle, all four wheels spinning,going around in big circles until the cows come home. No fiery crashes.
It’s a hoot, and you can learn a lot about how your car will respond should you ever lose traction.
Heck, even playing video games can teach you a little about car control at the limits.
The Consumers Report article sounds like Toyota bashing to me. Maybe the dumbest, most brain dead drivers wouldn’t have a chance to control the Lexus, but then the dumbest, most brain dead drivers SHOULDN’T BE ON THE ROAD ANYWAY.
I hate Consumer Reports. They have obvious biases, even though they claim their lack of advertising means they don’t.
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