Posted on 04/01/2010 8:55:01 AM PDT by pillut48
American University Erupts Over Date Rape: Girls Who Drink and Go to Frat Parties Deserve Date Rape, Says Student Newspaper Columnist
Today begins Sexual Abuse Awareness and Prevention month -- and American University is in an uproar over an anti-feminist diatribe in the student newspaper charging that some women who survive date rape invited it.
"Let's get this straight: any woman who heads to an EI [fraternity] party as an anonymous onlooker, drinks five cups of the jungle juice, and walks back to a boy's room with him is indicating that she wants sex, OK?" columnist Alex Knepper, 20, wrote in the Eagle, the school paper.
"To cry 'date rape' after you sober up the next morning and regret the incident is the equivalent of pulling a gun to someone's head and then later claiming that you didn't ever actually intend to pull the trigger," he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
Reminds me of this story (as recounted on unsolvedmysteries.com):
There is an ex mafioso by the name of Tony Mastasi, who was interviewed on Coast to Coast after he turned states evidence and lives now under another name. He knew Joe Gallo growing up in the late fifties, and related a story that shows Joe's frame of mind and that of the mafia. Tony said that Joe lived in a neighborhood that was pristine in appearance. No litter, flowers by the roadside, etc. He said that one good thing the mafia did was instill respect in young men inside their ring. Young men were taught to keep themselves and their environment clean, to respect others, and to definitely respect women. Young men were shown that when a date ends with a woman, the man will show the woman to the door of her home, and make sure she is inside and secure before leaving. Men have been "confronted" for not adhering to this. Well, in this neighborhood one night, a guy took out a daughter of a prominent man. This guy expected to "get some" that night, but the girl had other ideas. When she refused his advances, he beat her. He knocked out teeth, broke her jaw, and crushed the bone beneath one eye, then dumped her. She made her way on the subway all the way home in that condition. When her father saw her, he took her to the hospital, then decided he would give Joe the Blond Gallo a call.
Joe heard the story. He found out who the guy was and where he worked. He went onto the street and found two young guys, about 20 years old, and gave them a business proposition. He said that he would make it worth their while to stake out this guy's place of business, and watch him. Just watch him, until they could "grab him right," which meant grab him without others seeing them, and return him to Joe. Gallo said it may take days for the right grab, but just do it. And, he said, if they didn't, they were never to approach his house.
The two guys did what they were told. It took almost a week, but they found a chance, grabbed the guy, threw him in their trunk, and drove him to Joe's house, the guy kicking and screaming.
Joe let the three in, the guy by this time crying. He led them down into his basement. There, they all saw one of Joe's pets...a mountain lion in a cage. One which Joe hadn't fed for the entire week. Joe approached the guy and asked him about the things he did to the girl. The guy nodded. Joe asked him which hand he used to hit her with. The guy waved his right hand. Joe told him to stick it in the lion's cage. Joe said if he didn't, the last thing the guy would see in the world would be Joe's face.
The guy stuck his hand in. It was pretty much turned to hamburger. Joe then said they would take him to the hospital. He said he could tell the doctors anything he wanted, like he got it stuck in a meat grinder, but that he would never tell the doctors what really happened. Then he told him never to come back to the neighborhood. No one saw the man again.
Sorry...my Give-A-D@mn is busted when it comes to unintended (but totally predictable) consequences of stupid behavior.
Callousness is not a virtue. Rape is simply not a fitting punishment for intoxication. One can have sympathy for someone who fell victim to a horrible crime, even when their own actions were less than ideal.
We cannot reserve sympathy for only those victims who behave perfectly.
SnakeDoc
If a girl gets sh$t-faced drunk, drives and wrecks the car, it's the bartender's fault.
If a girl marries a bad boy who drinks, cheats and won't work, it's his fault for ruining her life.
If a girl accepts multiple credit cards and maxes out each card's limit, it's not her fault. It's those evil credit cards' fault for offering her the cards and the advertisers' fault for making her buy their products.
If a girl buys a house she in no way can afford, it's not her fault when she defaults on her mortgage and the bank forecloses, it's the evil bank's fault for forcing that mortgage on her.
Once upon a time, personal responsibility meant something and behaving stupidly brought easily foreseen consequences along the blame for being stupid. Education is never free.
And yes, if a boy does any of the above examples, it's not his fault any more either.
Excellent advice. They might not call Mom, but they'll always call a friend. Hopefully, they have some level-headed ones....or at least as level-headed as a 13-year-old can be.
My kids are still Sesame-Street age. I'm thinking of locking them in a closet until they're 40, to protect them from some of this stuff. Especially my oldest - what he lacks in common sense, he makes up for in enthusiasm. Scares the crap out of me.
I haven't figured out how I'm going to handle teenage / parties / booze /etc. Having been there and done my fair share of that, I know what goes on, more-or-less. The best that I've come up with is that "If you get in over your head, call me and I will come. Always, no questions asked." But I dunno. Fortunately, I've got some time to figure it out.
Yes, that I knew, but that’s not at all what I was commenting on.
Re: post 74.... you’re far too level-headed and rational for this thread. No common sense allowed. :-)
That's a very good parallel. If you are a man, go to a party, start...snogging, as the Brits say, another man and then go to his room, I don't think you can say the next morning "I'm not gay."
The word "rape" here is very misleading. By "date rape" the feminists do mean any sex that is afterwards declared to be rape. It is inconsistent with our system of jurisprudence to declare any activity to be nonconsensual after the fact.
Consider even alcohol. Suppose I go to a bar, get drunk and refuse to pay my bill on the grounds that I was too drunk to know what I was doing and I could not have consented to drink the 100-year-old scotch.
It can be rape, but the burden of proof to even bring the case should be high in this circumstance.
To me, this is like a drunk man walking into a dark alley with a huge wad of money hanging out of the pocket. He’s an idiot asking to get mugged.
Doesn’t make the mugger not guilty, though.
I don’t think a girl who does this is asking for sex in any way. That sounds like the dream of an immature boy who wants what he wants without any consequences. However, it is very UNWISE for any girl to do that. Young women need to maintain control over themselves by remaining sober and acting prudently.
Would a mentally deficient young woman be asking for it? If not, isn’t over-consumption of alcohol either a voluntary or accidental temporary mental deficiency?
In my book, neither young woman is asking for it. While young men admittedly have raging hormones, why on earth would they want to put themselves in a position of having sex with someone who could be deemed not in control of themselves?
Sounds like some young men might find the only way they can score is if the young woman is stupid drunk?
So, if a guy gets stupid drunk and a ‘friend’ ‘helps’ him back to his room, I suppose the drunk dude was ‘asking for it’ if he is anally raped? Ooops. That’s right, it wouldn’t be a rape, he would have ‘asked’ for it.
You sure you don’t want to rethink the topic?
I didn’t say she was asking for sex. However, getting drunk with a bunch of guys will often lead to unintended consequences. The girls should at least bring a designated watcher.
I think I directed my statement to the wrong person. Sorry. Actually, I like your idea of a “designated watcher.” Women think they’re practicing their freedom when in fact, they are acting quite stupid and are reducing their freedom to act with full faculties and decision-making capacity.
The way male-female relations have evolved on campus...where they all get together in a big group, hook up for the evening, then come back the next night and shuffle the deck....I pray to God I am never called to serve on a jury for any case involving campus date rape.
I dunno what this girl's "associates" told the guy in my example to "persuade" him to leave. All I know is that one day, this girl is terrified to set foot out of her door - and certainly not by herself. The next day she said "It's been handled." told me roughly what I told you, and more-or-less went on about her business, or about as well as she could.
I was never too concerned about this crud's well-being. :-) Good riddance.
I AM serious.
It is up to the FATHER to protect his daughters until he gives her in marriage to her husband.
When you compromise your values with the world, ie, “dating” or pairing off with no deliberate thought of marriage,
then things like this will happen.
_I’M_ not the one that’s “unrealistic” here. Reality is reality, notwithstanding how the world would like you to deny it.
Very well said!
Your post above this one was very fitting, I thought. You said we should stop being accomplices in the mangling of language.
In that same spirit, I'd say we should stop employing euphemisms.
I can conceive the mindset that says rape is a "punishment" for intoxication, but I can't share it. Rape is not a punishment...it's a consequence. There's a huge difference. Responsible people act while weighing consequences. H3ll, it's not the first time it's happened, right???
One can have sympathy for someone who fell victim to a horrible crime, even when their own actions were less than ideal.
Ah, the passive voice and minimization. I'm not talking about the person who's walking home from work and gets attacked. I'm talking about the person who acts with disregard for predictable consequences, not someone whose actions were "less than ideal."
We cannot reserve sympathy for only those victims who behave perfectly.
Anyone reading that sentence would be dumber for having read it. I agree we should stop mangling language...please, please stop mangling logic.
This brings to mind a prior tagline of mine..."Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid."
We're talking about college students. Those who came from pampered backgrounds are ill equipped for life...more so than other, admittedly, immature college students.
They aren't immortal, and they aren't invincible. If anything, I'm sorry that lesson was driven home so brutally.
We agree.
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