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To: John McDonnell

Your point doesn’t make sense. It’s not that I *chose* to avoid it, it doesn’t exist.

What’s even the point of the rapture if the resurrection occurs first? By the time the tribulation is over, Christ will have returned and wouldn’t need to gather His church up in the air at all, because He’d already be on earth.

Not to mention that virtually everyone who was a believer would have been killed already.

Your *reasoning* (for lack of a better term) in the interpretation of that passage just doesn’t hold any water. There’s no logic or sense to it at all.


104 posted on 03/29/2010 4:54:13 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
Not to mention that virtually everyone who was a believer would have been killed already.

Huh? Many will be beheaded for their faith and their refusal to receive the mark. It doesn't follow that virtually everyone will be. This is why Jesus said that if those days were not cut short for the sake of the elect, no one would survive.
106 posted on 03/29/2010 4:59:18 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: metmom
What’s even the point of the rapture if the resurrection occurs first?

Hah! You just ridiculed the teaching of Paul! It was Paul, not me, who taught that the resurrection of the dead in Christ precedes the rapture of the living!

111 posted on 03/29/2010 6:42:53 PM PDT by John McDonnell (Try to hide my candle under a bushel, and it will burn through the bushel.)
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To: metmom
Here's an excerpt from a terrific article that completely nukes med-trib and post-trib teaching:

The pretribulation rapture is the only view that allows for the rapture to be imminent in its timing. All the other views require a number of prophetic occurrences to take place before the rapture can be declared imminent. To be looking for the imminent return of Christ, you have to believe in a pre-trib rapture.

Jesus repeatedly said that His return for the Church would be a surprise. The Lord even went beyond that by saying He would return �as a thief� when believers generally won't be expecting Him to come for them.

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matthew 24:36).

"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing" (Matthew 24:42-46 KJV).

"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 25:13).

"And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power" (Acts 1:7).

Because we have no way to refute the fact that we will not know the timing of our Lord's return, the tribulation is a barrier to the rapture. No wonder the late John Walvoord called imminency "the heart of Pretribulationism."

This type of �any-moment� language doesn't fit a post-trib rapture. If Jesus were prevented from coming until after the battle of Magog, the rise of Antichrist, and the Mark of the Beast, we would have no need to watch for Him before the tribulation.

If the Church were required to go through the seven-year tribulation, you would expect the New Testament writers to have warned us to be prepared for trying times. On the contrary, the New Testament writers repeatedly tell the Church to be comforted by the "coming of the Lord" (1 Thes 4:18). The word "comfort" alone strongly implies the rapture will take place before the tribulation.

Some anti-imminency folks try to solve the problem they have with the rapture's any-moment occurrence by redefining it as merely indicating that Christ will return soon. The speed of Christ's advent is not the issue. If an event is required to take place before the Lord can return, there is no need to remain watchful.

If a person should make it through the tribulation until the point when the mid-trib, pre-wrath, and post-trib folks expect the rapture to occur, it would then become possible for the rapture to be classified as �imminent.� However, once you solve the problem of imminency, you create another one regarding the restrictions against knowing the timing of the rapture.

Because the duration of the tribulation is already known, post-tribbers have the hardest time dealing with the rapture's timing. Some of them have tried to suggest that believers who make it through the tribulation will lazily lose track of the nearness of Christ's second coming.

If a Christian has been lucky enough to survive a host of apocalyptic calamities and elude the Antichrist's secret police for at least 3 1/2 years, I cannot imagine that he would be oblivious to the nearness of the Lord's return at the 7-year mark. If I were reduced to the point of having to hide in a forest and forage through dead tree bark to find beetles and grubs to sustain myself, I'm certain my every thought would be focused on the Lord's return.

Imminency

There is simply no Scriptural evidence for anything other than the Rapture happening before the Tribulation. Those who cling to the error of mid-Trib or post-Trib belief have to discard much of end-time Scripture to hang on to their false teachings.

190 posted on 03/31/2010 4:12:43 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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