Posted on 03/11/2010 7:21:53 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate
SANTIAGO, Chile — A strong earthquake shook Chile Thursday, shortly before Sebastian Pinera was to be sworn in as president. The aftershock reached a 7.2-magnitude according to the United States Geological Survey.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
All just to teach Job a lesson? Maybe.
Certainly at least some; perhaps mostly. And absolutely to teach Job's friends -- and us -- a thing or two.
Since God knows the end from the beginning, and we don't, we're constantly encountering circumstances wherein we learn lessons, but God already knows the outcome.
The argument is well made that God let Satan impose upon Job because He knew how Job would handle the situation, and Job needed to learn some things about himself that God already knew. That doesn't reduce Job to being God's sock puppet; it simply magnifies God's omniscience.
Wow. Thanks for that Oregon quake info. I have in-laws out west of Coos Bay.
Wow. Thanks for that Oregon quake info. I have in-laws out west of Coos Bay.
By the way, this information about the possible devastating earthquake in Oregon -- has not been known for very long. It was about the mid-90s that some scientists started discovering the "information" about it.
In the meantime, since the mid-90s, I started seeing many structures in the Portland area, getting retrofitted for a big earthquake. Before it was not known that such a thing was possible.
I have been around.
More than you may think.
While the overwhelming majority of the people on the earth are really nice people, and may have qualities congruent at least in part to what I describe, there is a difference.
You won’t know until you’re there.
All I can say is, taste and see.
I was an atheist and a drug user headed for my second divorce.
I would never hurt anybody, and never did, not directly anyway. But I was a sinner without hope.
When I gave my life to Christ, “the scales fell away”, and I was able to see.
Now I have been happily married for over 30 years and have 11 children and 9 grand children. PRAISE THE LORD!
Your mileage may vary, of course, but you have nothing to lose and eternity to gain.
For what profit is it if a main gain the world, but lose his soul?
So ultimately, what good do these lessons do us? We’re here for 70 or 80 yrs, then we die and go to the place God knew we were going anyway. That’s because He’s the one that created the lessons and all their associated circumstances, both good and bad. Right?
Didn’t God also create satan and knows what the outcome of all his actions are too?
Well, I’m sorry you were so messed up. It’s certainly good that you found a way to fix yourself.
Isn’t it pretty difficult to get
VERY MUCH WEST of Coos Bay
without a yacht?
Yes.
I do believe the Lord is continually leading us to those areas that help us to understand that He is able to bring us through. It helps to build our faith and our compassion for others.
The short answer to your question is that these lessons are to provoke us to increased reliance on, and deeper relationship with, God; relationship that He actively facilitated by His own blood.
I'd gladly lose me to find you I'd gladly give up all I had To find you I'd suffer anything and be glad
Yeah. Just like that.
That His lessons often teach us nothing is not because the Teacher is deficient, but because the students are either not listening, or have their fingers stuck in their ears droning "Na-na-na-na-I can't hear you-na-na-na-na..."
Yes, we really are here for a very short time, and we really do end up where God already knows we're going to end up. BUT, we also really do make our own volitional choices getting there. Just because God knows us well enough that He already knows what we're going to choose DOES NOT mean we aren't actually choosing, it's just proof of God's omniscience.
For example, I know my brother well enough to know that, given a choice between going out for a Carl's Jr. hamburger or a sandwich at the Cheese Steak Shop, it'll be cheese steak EVERY time. That doesn't mean I control him; it simply indicates how well I know him.
That’s because He’s the one that created the lessons and all their associated circumstances, both good and bad. Right?
Not quite right.
In the "bad circumstances" category, we must clearly delineate between "bad" and "evil". God does set up circumstances that are sometimes "bad" from our perspective, but God is not the author of "evil".
Satan and the fallen ones are also volitional beings who, although God knows what they are going to do, really are making their own choices, just as you and I are, and those choices frequently find their target in our lives.
Though the 'quakes and 'canes are predominately Natural occurrences, life on Earth really IS battle between Good and Evil, between God and Satan, and WE -- our immortal souls -- are the victor's prize.
I'd call that a bargain The best I ever had The best I ever had
Magnitude 4.2 - SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
2010 March 13 16:32:32 UTC
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/ci14600292.php#maps
So do I. We just have different blind faiths.
I understand how one can believe that, but how does it really provoke us to increased reliance on, and deeper relationship with God, when He already knows the outcome? Aren’t we created with Him knowing what we are going to do?
How do we really make these choices, when God already knows what we are going to do, and all others that are affected and inter-related to our actions? He knows everything that will happen...how could we possibly do something that God does not know will happen?
I believe that good and bad are human traits. I don’t believe, that as the creator of all, God has a sense of what we believe to be good or bad.
Thanks...I chuckled!
Because the reason God knows the outcome is His omniscience, NOT our having been pre-programmed.
Aren’t we created with Him knowing what we are going to do?
Yes, but it's WHY He already knows that's important.
It is absolutely CORE to understand that God knows because He's omniscient, NOT because we pop out totally pre-programmed like little 'droids.
If God's foreknowledge of all our choices arose from His having programmed us all, then -- yeah -- why bother with any of this prayer and fasting, church and holy living? If it's all prearranged, then get me to the nearest bar, pour me a stiff drink, and find me a beautiful girl to dance with. When God wants to close His deal with little robot me, He'll know where to find me. Until then...bottom's up!
But here's what destroys that idea: if we're all predestined to Heaven or Hell because God programmed us that way, and our seemingly volitional choices are NOT really volitional, then the Bible is a FRAUD, and God is The Ultimate LIAR.
Why? Because the Bible is wall-to-wall with stories of people making volitional choices for which God holds them accountable. The language used in the text conveys the sense that these people -- with RARE exceptions like Pharaoh and Judas Iscariot -- all have the genuine option to chose one way or another. If that is not the case, if the choices are NOT wholly volitional, then the Bible is a deception of such monumental magnitude as to reduce the entire collected works of Satan to the status of mere bungling, like that of Barney Fife. And, if THAT is the case, then The Author of Scripture, as the Perpetrator of this deception, is The Supreme LIAR in all the universe and beyond.
But God is no liar. The characters we read about in Scripture really do -- with RARE exception -- make real, volitional choices. Even Satan, in the story of Job, was making real, volitional choices as to what he would do to Job. God only set a limit on the extent to which Satan could go, He did not dictate to Satan what to do to Job.
SINCE the reason that God knows the outcome of everything is due to His omniscience, and NOT owing to our lack of genuine choice, when we hit hard times we face the genuine option to either turn toward God or turn away from God. We really do get to choose whether or not to, as Job's wife suggested, "curse God and die," and we are accountable for those choices even though God already knows what we're going to do. Choosing to turn toward Him is obedience; choosing to turn away is unbelief.
All of that is perfectly just because He's left us sufficient testimony about how He really regards us that we should understand that choosing to turn toward Him in adversity is the only logical and obedient course of action.
God testified that He so loved the world that He sent His only Son so that whoever believed in him would be saved and have life eternal. Well, look, you don't see advertising campaigns with target demographics any larger than that; it's all-encompassing. But, if we didn't think God really loved us, that would leave us less inclined to turn toward Him in our trouble. Since he does love us, however, then it follows that whatever befalls us has been allowed for some good purpose. If we didn't know that, we would be less inclined to turn toward God in our trials. But, knowing that we are loved by God, it is inconsistent with even our simple human logic to conclude that God allows adversity into our lives for any purpose that's not ultimately good. So, why would we NOT turn toward God in dark times? How can we help but love and obey Him in return, unless we're just not cognizant of these realities?
I believe that His omniscience is our pre-programming.
How can you speak of the CORE of understanding God, as if your knowledge is fact?
You seem to have a good understanding of these things, so I have two questions for you, both about the 8.8 that hit on the 27th:
1. Do you know how long the shock took to travel from Concepcion, Chile to Santiago, Chile? Seconds? Minutes? Instantaneous?
2. Do you know what the effect was in Santiago on the Richter scale? Was it an 8.8 in Santiago too, or a 7.0?
So, whatever He knows about what you're going to do isn't because He knows you so well, but because he "wrote your code"??
If that's the case, the Bible's a massive fraud, God's a liar, and we're all outta luck, because it's all down to just us. There's no Heaven, no Hell, no nothing but us and our vainglorious imaginations.
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