Posted on 03/11/2010 7:21:53 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate
Old Testament vs New Testament? The New Covanent is a little different I think. And I admit I am not enough of a Biblical scholar, much more the student, to comment on Job.
o, I am not in Chile. Oregon actually. I just sort of follow this stuff I guess. The sciences studying earthquakes fascinate me.
Too much data - not enough time. I didn’t mean to suggest I thought there was a dramatic increase in the numbers of overall Earthquakes. I just commented on the fact that there have been a large number of major quakes over a short period of time relative to what is normally reported. Oh, and I’ve not engaged in the concept of “End Times” with respect to religious dogma. The planet Earth is a living planet, and stuff happens with respect to quakes and other natural disasters.
Me neither, but what I have read about him, it sounds like he was really challenged. I’ve never figured out why God put him through all that.
Oh, I think the end of the story gives a strong clue. Job's fortune was restored seven times over, and he was gifted with the most beautiful daughters in the land.
In a nutshell, I think that God allowed the trouble in Job's life so that Job's own deficiencies of character would be evident to him, so he could be fully repentant before God about them, be forgiven of them by God, be freed from them by God, and be promoted by God to his final state of far greater blessing.
Had Job been blessed seven times over without having been through all those troubles, I think the weaknesses in his character would have become points of failure, and he would have come to ruin.
So, then, Job's seemingly severe testing, became the mechanism by which he was purified, and made able to remain in righteousness despite even greater material blessing from God.
Looking at it that way, one might almost wish to be dealt with in similar fashion. "O God, break me, that I may see my faults plainly, that I might repent of them, and be purified, that Thou might then truly bless me to all the extent that is in Thy heart."
Sobering.
If someone opens up an Apologetics thread, then invites some Christians over for discussing the issues, it might be productive for those who have questions. Obviously there are "questions" here and we should answer them (and I'm all for that...), but it's sorta funky to be doing it in the middle of an earthquake in Chile..., doncha know... LOL ...
No, I am not in Chile. Oregon actually. I just sort of follow this stuff I guess. The sciences studying earthquakes fascinate me.
Ah yes..., Oregon, the other place in the world where 9.0 to 10.0 earthquakes can happen. Oregon may be producing one of the largest earthquakes in the history of the world (or at least, the history of this continent), in the next few years...
Scientists found out recently that Oregon is capable of producing earthquakes that are larger than the one in Chile... hoo-boy!
It comes from the Cascadia Subduction Zone...
By Lori Tobias, The Oregonian
April 19, 2009, 9:32PM
The good news: New research is giving scientists a better handle on when the big one might strike the Pacific Coast.
The bad news: It probably will be sooner than we thought.
"The amount of devastation is going to be unbelievable," says Rob Witter, coastal geologist with the Oregon Department of Geology and Mineral Industries. "People aren't going to be ready for this. Even if they are prepared, they are going to be surprised by the level of devastation."
Witter spoke last week about the latest in earthquake and tsunami studies -- it's Earthquake and Tsunami Awareness Month -- as part of state and local efforts to educate the public on preparing for a megaquake of magnitude 9 or more. Witter and James Roddey, spokesman for the state agency, also will give a public talk Tuesday in Newport.
Witter says scientists are now in wide agreement that there's a 10 to 14 percent chance a powerful earthquake and tsunami will strike the Oregon coast in the next 50 years.
[ ... see more at the link ... ]
Downtown Portland probably won't exist any more. All the building will be down. Any other smaller cities around, in the outlying areas, or wherever they are, probably won't have buildings that will survive a 9.0 to 10.0 earthquaake.
The Coast might see a 100 foot tsunami, which will wipe out the Oregon Coast and the cities there.
Oregon will go back to what it was at around 1850 or thereabout... hoo-boy!
And some people think living in California is bad for earthquakes. It's nothing like what is coming in Oregon.
Wow - are you still doing ok? This was a 7.2 earthquake and nothing much “fell” where you are? What about other places in Chile?
Haiti and Chile are good examples of what building codes do for a population are and the people living in it. You can see how many people were killed and severely affected and impacted by the Haiti quake as compared to the Chile quake.
These earthquakes can be protected against, if the society wants to invest the effort into it. In Chile, they think it's worth investing in it. In Haiti (and for whatever reasons), they didn't.
Hi there. Thanks for all [y]our posts. Awesome!
LOL ... thanks... it's Apologetics in the middle of a Chile earthquake... but you never know where Apologetics is going to pop up, do you?
I mentioned on another post that someone ought to open up an Apologetics thread for those who "obviously" have "questions" here... that would be good.
I have seen thread diversion much worse than this.... :)
I have seen thread diversion much worse than this.... :)
Oh..., I'm not complaining. It's okay with me. I was just saying that (basically) it would be nice to have an Apologetics thread. I think it would be great for FReepers who do know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, be on that thread and supply answers to those who are questioning and don't have the answers, or something doesn't make sense to them.
But, in any case... carry on here... :-) No problem from me.
> Are you saying He does all this just to teach us a lesson?
Think of some of the lessons you did not accept when your dad taught them to you. Think of the circumstances you encountered later in life that proved your father was right.
> By the way, how do you KNOW this is what God wants?
Very interesting question, and one to which I learned the answer over time.
A good place to start is to discern God’s GENERAL will for your life. THAT’s in the Bible.
God’s specific will for your life will be revealed as you develop a closer walk with Him.
Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened unto you.
So it was all just to teach Job a lesson that God already knew the ending to?
My father did not create those circumstances. God did create all the circumstances that Job faced. My father also did not know the outcome of all my actions.
How do you KNOW the bible is correct for everyone? What about peole that are not Christians? They get through life, just as well as anyone else.
> How do you KNOW the bible is correct for everyone?
I just returned from an International Conference of Christians in Brazil. I saw thousands of men and women and children from virtually all ancestries and probably all continents.
Every single one of them has a story. Every story is unique. But the outcome is the same! Aleluia!
These people have put the Bible to practice in their lives. They are full of joy, despite their challenges, despite the persecutions, despite the hate that is directed at them. They forgive their enemies and pray for them.
Does the day-to-day practice of my faith differ from those in “denominational” Christianity or Catholilcism? Yes. Do I consider them less Christian than myself? NO!!
One of the strongest themes I learned from this conference was, “Muitas sotaques, um falar,” which is Portuguese for, “Many accents, one speaking.”
We all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.
And the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
By the offence of one, Adam, judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one, Christ, the *FREE* gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
And it is SO easy, my friend. Easy enough for a 5 year old child to understand. In fact, Jesus said that if you could not come as a little child, then you could not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
The Bible says, “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved!”
Call on HIM! Call out, “Oh Lord Jesus, SAVE ME!”
I promise you, no salesman will call.
But, if you are really seeking God when you call upon Him, as a little lost child seeking his father, you will be transformed from the inside out. Some are transformed more slowly than others. God works with you, not against you. He understands.
So Job and I don’t understand, but you do? Thanks
So how many non-Christians that are full of joy, despite their challenges, despite the persecutions, despite the hate that is directed at them, and forgive their enemies and pray for them, have you been around? I’m sure that as a Christian you know many people like those, but you do realise that there are just as many at least, that are like those but are not Christians.
Good point. Don’t know where my head was framing it in a “sin” perspective like that. I’ve read Job so many times, and zeroed in on that very aspect of how Scripture describes him, I’d have expected that I knew Job better than to fumble at such an obvious point. Mea culpa.
So, then, allow me to rephrase so that my intent is harmonious with the Scriptural record of Job’s state of being:
“I think that God allowed the trouble in Job’s life so that Job’s own deficiencies of character [weaknesses, NOT sin] would be evident to him, so he could fully acknowledge them before God, be strengthened at those points, and be made ready for promotion by God to his final state of far greater blessing.”
As you also noted, neither we, nor even Job, get the whole story out of what’s there, but I think enough evidence exists to substantiate that the above was at least part of the equation.
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