State may ban power plants from using sea

The Tribune SanLuisObispo.com ^ | Monday, Mar. 01, 2010 | AP

[BlueDragon]

State water board regulators are mulling a plan to stop power companies from vacuuming the ocean for water to cool their machinery.

Environmentalists said the practice destroys too much sea life, while utility advocates said the impact is minimal. Banning the practice would cost too much, jeopardize the reliability of the electricity grid and slow the state's transition to clean energy, supporters of the practice said.

[GatorGirl]

Oops just saw your prior post. Hope you enjoyed it!

[DesScorp]

"Californicide continues"

And that's precisely what this is.

[Domandred]

an intake pipe that has screen across it.

But that screen is only to protect the big machines from getting jammed up with big fish and animals. It proves Big corp cares more about their machines than the animals anyways. So even with the screen it should still be banned because they don't care about the animals.

yes that was sarcasm on my part, but really paraphrased of what I've actually heard.

[Pessimist]

Yup! I believe that was the one.

We were just there a few weeks ago when it was pretty chilly. Besides the tons of manatees, there were tons of spotted eagle rays.

Those clowns must have been feedind on smaller fish or something, cuz they were continually going airborne and doing all kind of acrobatics.

There were a lot of birds too bellying up to the buffet!

I could watch stuff like that all day long!

[BlueDragon]

The enviro wackos want us to live in trees....

I doubt they'd let us live in trees. Trees have feelings too, ya' know?

But first, they want us to leave all fishes alone.

The once- through cooling cycles no doubt do kill significant quantities of larvae.

In one case in the past, at the gas-fired plant in Morro Bay, it was recorded to have had more than a thousand pounds of juvenile Bocaccio rockfish which were far bigger than mere larvae, stuck on intake screens.

It is assumed that most all larvae taken into the power plants in the once-through cooling --- die. That assumption, if not the truth, cannot be far from it.

[Hoodat]

State may ban power plants from using sea

There, fixed it.

[GatorGirl]

Wow you got quite a show. They must have loved the warmth. It has been so cold here all winter.

Proves that environmentalists are complete and utter morons—these animals are living in the wild but they love the artificial warmth. In fact, I think I read that during the prolonged freeze in January some manatees died from the cold.

You didn’t see any rays or manatees getting sucked into the plant? Hmmmmmm......

[Oldexpat]

Usually water is colder than the air and the colder the cooling medium the higher the plant efficiency.

[Waco]

Kali don’t need no stenking power, Kali don’t need no stenking oil, and Kali don’t need no stenking revenue. They’re all moving to Nev. anyway.

[Gator113]

More insanity from a near dead state.

[Spktyr]

Good, let them ban it, and then watch the state go dark.

[truthguy]

Environmentalists said the practice destroys too much sea life

Just who are these environmentalists? Do they have names? Are they part of some organization or just individual lunatics? The madness goes on.

[Pessimist]

I imagine the smaller ones do get ground up though. At the one I saw in FLA, there was a gull or something sitting right on the output gate and picking around here and there as stuff went by.

Bet that was his favorite restaurant! :)

[Reeses]

Waste heat could be used for saltwater evaporation, providing more rain to farmers and more hydro power. Nature does this with waste heat but technology could be used to maximize the effect. Much less water from the ocean would be needed compared to traditional cooling.

[Little Bill]

It was a warm and sunny afternoon in South Boston, Massachusets, a Sunday around 0945.

I was Shift Manager at the New Boston Generating Plant, 780 MW of relieable power, when I got a call from security that the natives were restless and at the gates.

I went down and was confronted by a Blue Haired old lady in sneakers complaining about the foam in the discharge canal of our condensers.

I explaned how the cycle worked and gave her a tour of the plant, spotless as it should be, and then showed her the Jelly Fish on the intakes, a problem in Boston Harbor.

I told her that the foam was caused by aereated water and copped Jellyfish, never heard back.

[BlueDragon]

No, Mr. Dallas59, they expect you to die....

That's about right. I used to think they would be satisfied with reducing us all to grubbing with our hands. But what of the environmental impacts to nature then?
We'd be disturbing hallowed grubs, and that simply won't do.

Meanwhile, I do wonder why fishermen are not allowed to harvest, but some power plants do NOT seem to be participating in fishery closures.

...perhaps that should be looked at, or at least considered.

But how? Where to draw the lines? This judge;

was reversed by the higher court for "ruling that while the EPA may consider the cost posed to power plants, the agency may not use a cost-benefit analysis."

So- what now? What the heck is BTA (best technology available)? If one is desirous of not negatively affecting sea life in the way of 316(b) issues, then some other method of cooling other than once-through sea water, looks to be unavoidable. Retro-fitting won't be cheap. If it comes to cooling towers --- where will the water come from? What effect will the water, in the way of blow-off steam, have downwind from the plant? (put yer' garden right there, mateys!)

[Parley Baer]

No problem. Let’s just cut the power to San Luis Obispo and let them use wind mills and solar panels for their power.

[Little Bill]

I spent 40 years making the stuff that powers your air conditioners, you my dear sir ain’t got a clue.

[The Sons of Liberty]

Environmentalists said the practice destroys too much sea life,

It should be incumbent upon them to prove it, and show at what point "too much" is reached and prove that it has been exceeded.

[BlueDragon]

Usually water is colder than the air and the colder the cooling medium the higher the plant efficiency.

Even at the same temp, water is much more efficient due to it's density.

I've dumped heat through both keel coolers, and raw water heat exchangers for marine diesels. Dumping heat into the water is what occurs also for much (commercial fishing) marine refrigeration. Some methods even use chilled sea water to extract heat from fish (which would then be dumped by way of exchanger back into the ocean). That way uses water on both ends of the process(!).
All of which is so much more efficient in terms of energy than dumping heat into the air, by using moving air, that it isn't even a contest. No doubt about it.

Forcing power plants to refit will cost bigtime, and continue to make electricity more expensive from there on out.