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Gun Instructor Accidentally Shoots Student [FL]
wftv ^ | 20-Feb-2010

Posted on 02/21/2010 1:09:53 PM PST by stainlessbanner

ORLANDO, Fla. -- An instructor teaching a concealed weapons safety class accidentally shot one of his participants in Orlando.

The class was being held at the Summit Church on Herndon Avenue, but the church was not sponsoring the class. The class was a NRA Concealed Weapons Safety Course.

Orlando police say Michael Phillips was teaching the class, when his gun accidentally went off, and shot Robert Frauman, Junior.

Frauman was shot in the foot. He was taken to the hospital, and is expected to recover.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; gunowner; rkba
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To: Kozak

“PLEASE don’t tell me there are states that issue a CCL without actually having you fire the weapon.....”

MA doesn’t require it. They require a course but firing is not mandated.


61 posted on 02/21/2010 3:49:46 PM PST by Stormdog (A rifle transforms one from subject to Citizen)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Evening SWAMPSNIPER,

One of the things you have to do when ya get a CCW is actually fire a weapon in front of and instructor. Demonstrating that you actually do have an idea of how the damn thing works.
This guy just wasn’t that good of an instructor quite obviously.


62 posted on 02/21/2010 3:50:58 PM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) Obammy is little more than a quota boy.)
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To: Dayman

>> No class should be needed, nor license for that matter ...

Good idea - why don’t we meet at the airplane and I’ll give you the keys to my B-767?


63 posted on 02/21/2010 3:52:44 PM PST by QBFimi (When gunpowder speaks, beasts listen.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
What was live ammo doing there!

No kidding. This course was being held at a church? If they were at a firing range, that's one thing. But c'mon! This instructor should no longer be so.

64 posted on 02/21/2010 3:55:31 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Excellent.
I’ve trained a number of folks in various and sundry matters. Sometimes, in spite of the training and their understanding of same, they step on their ropes. Disciplinary action is dependant on the severity of the screwup. Assumptions of career choices are irrelevant.


65 posted on 02/21/2010 3:56:45 PM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: bgill

Achilles agrees that is has been a long time.

66 posted on 02/21/2010 3:58:02 PM PST by bmwcyle (Free the Navy Seals)
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To: QBFimi

“Good idea - why don’t we meet at the airplane and I’ll give you the keys to my B-767?”
Ok. What airport?


67 posted on 02/21/2010 4:00:08 PM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: QBFimi

“Good idea - why don’t we meet at the airplane and I’ll give you the keys to my B-767?”

Which Amendment covers airplanes?


68 posted on 02/21/2010 4:04:41 PM PST by A Strict Constructionist (How long before we are forced to refresh the Tree of Liberty? Sic semper tryannis)
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To: QBFimi

There is no constitutional right to fly an airplane so one has nothing to do with another.

A firearm is a simple machine, an airplane is not. No gov’t entity has the right to tell a free citizen they may not be armed.


69 posted on 02/21/2010 4:09:44 PM PST by Dayman (My 1919a4 is named Charlotte. When I light her up she has the voice of an angel.)
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To: stainlessbanner

Idiot!

This is no different than a surgeon removing the wrong organ during surgery.


70 posted on 02/21/2010 4:25:52 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Kozak
PLEASE don't tell me there are states that issue a CCL without actually having you fire the weapon.....

PA!

I have my CCL and never shot aqnyone;-)
71 posted on 02/21/2010 4:27:04 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: Stentor
Where in there is anything about getting a license to conceal.

Amazing how many supposedly Pro-2A people will go along with these line of thinking.


72 posted on 02/21/2010 4:29:14 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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To: QBFimi

No offense, but that is one of the dumbest comments I have ever read here. Exactly where is the right to fly a Constitutional right?


73 posted on 02/21/2010 4:30:08 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (If guns cause crime, then all of mine are defective!)
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Comment #74 Removed by Moderator

To: Joe Boucher

Class time isn’t time for live firing! I became an NRA instructor back around 1969.


75 posted on 02/21/2010 4:43:45 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: QBFimi

The instructor is supposed to certify that the student can safely handle a pistol. This is often ignored. The reason is that the application for the carry permit has the student swear that he complied with the requirements. The instructor is off the hook. He can say that it’s not his fault the student didn’t get it; the student should have said he didn’t understand instead of signing the form.

There was a scandal a year and a half ago. Instructors were giving the permit lecture at gun shows, then meeting the students at a local range. The instructor loaded a pistol, closed the slide, handed it to the student, and told him to fire one shot. The student handed the (still loaded) pistol to the instructor and was sent on his way with a passing grade. Next . . .

When this was discovered, the instructors had their credentials revoked. The students were told to take another class. I would personally enjoy publicly humiliating these instructors. They’re irresponsible scum, and it’s a miracle that no one has been killed on account of their conduct. The hammer will drop in Florida, and not soon enough. It’s going to be pretty nasty when it happens, but it is long overdue. We see people with gun show carry permits every day. Most of them have no idea how ignorant, and dangerous, they are.


76 posted on 02/21/2010 4:50:50 PM PST by sig226 (Bring back Jimmy Carter!)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
Was the instructor not covering the rule about never point your gun at anything you don’t intend to destroy?

The NRA does not teach that in any course.

77 posted on 02/21/2010 5:00:24 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: stainlessbanner
The bullet went through a table before it hit Frauman, said Kristy-Lee Lawley, the church's communications director. She said Frauman, a member of the church, was "recovering well" and the bullet didn't break any bones.

Frauman was one of three students in the class, which was not a church-sponsored event, Lawley said. She said the church offered an upstairs conference room for free after some church members requested to have the class there. Lawley said the church is empty on Saturdays and this was the first class of its kind there.

"We won't be having anything like that in our church in the future," Lawley said.

78 posted on 02/21/2010 5:03:24 PM PST by smokingfrog (You can't ignore your boss and expect to keep your job... www.filipthishouse2010.com)
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To: Scotsman will be Free
NRA Instructor training involves
what is known as TPI
Total Participant Involvement.

The training is not lecture.

It involves the student Instructor
training others with the Training
Counselor observing and counseling.

Each student instructor would have
had to demonstrate the correct procedure
more than once while being observed.

Someone up link suggested "Team Teaching"
That is strongly encouraged.


79 posted on 02/21/2010 5:15:35 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Shooter 2.5

You bet!!!!!!


80 posted on 02/21/2010 5:46:43 PM PST by LFOD (Presently - Back in Dixie)
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